Stolen Model A recovered

I have my Cabriolet insured at "Agreed Upon Value" with Hagerty which is what I figure it would take to replace it. I have witnesed following Hurricane Sandy many friends in the hobby that "Underinsured" their cars which were totaled out by the storm, and some received the "Agreed upon Value" which was often one-third the replacement value.
I, for one, can't imagine why someone would skimp on valuation, collector car insurance being SO LOW versus the value of the cars in question, nor do I have very much sympathy for those who "Lost that Gamble", expecting to replace a car following its being smashed by a tree or flooded by a storm surge. They saved money while using their under-insured cars and were not bothered during those years of savings.
 
Last edited:
Marco Tahtaras said:
I've seen you say the same in the past. I agree that many or maybe even most such cars are indeed under insured. With that said, your other points aren't often pertinent. I've never heard of an insurance company that will insure a car for more than "fair market value". Insurance companies have their own data they follow and won't exceed those numbers unless provided with a credible appraisal. The "actual cost" to have a car professionally restored plays absolutely no role in determining market value and typically exceeds market value by as much as double.
Click to expand...


I know you disagree with me however my experience (--which has been many times) counters what you keep saying. This is probably a verbiage issue or semantics to you however it is replacement value, --not market value. There is a HUGE difference!

Let's use your Roadster as an example for this replacement vs. market value topic. To the unknowing, your Roadster can be bought all day long for less than $30k. EBay is full of blue Roadsters for that money so 'market value' says that's what their worth! Therefore with that mindset does that mean your Roadster is worth $30k? We both know that you could not replace your Roadster with a car of equal prominence or equal mechanical/aesthetical condition for 3X that amount. That is why it is 'replacement value'. I do agree that insurance underwriters want some sort of documentation that substantiates the replacement cost, and then if the risk is within their parameters, they will insure the car but insurance policies are often written for amounts to return it to the present condition at fair-market prices (labor, materials, etc.). There are many Model-A's that have came from my shop that were insured by their owner for $100k or more. All that was required is documentation. And, almost every one of them have received at least $75k of coverage without the underwriter even batting an eye. The only requirement they want is to view detailed pictures documenting the process and finished pictures. The reason I say "almost" is we restored a '69 Z-28 to concourse level and the reason they balked on insuring his car was his driving record.


And Yes, I agree that a "Professional restoration" does not mean a thing HOWEVER it does mean something when there are damage claim repairs to be made to make someone "whole" again. When an insurance company is paying to have a policy holder's car repaired, they pay a professional that meet's their standards to do the repair.
 
It seems to me that this insurance is not the same as normal car insurance specifically because it is an agreed value. I have put a fair amount of money in my roadster since I bought it, and feel it is now worth more. If they had to go by a book, such as is the case with modern cars then I could not as easily up the coverage. but in this case, this discussion has made me remember to increase my coverage.
 
Brent,
while you make many excellent points, not many 4 door sedans selling for 100k, of course the exception is Barret Jackson!

The reality is just not there....
 
If you drive your Model A (or other classic) a lot, and have it insured with your other vehicles on a regular policy including comprehension and collision, and that vehicle gets T-boned by a semi running a red light, the insurance adjuster will look what a 1930 Model T Roadster sells for -- not being offered for -- (comparable to comps in the real estate world), and give you a check for $22,500. You can take it, or you can try to get more, which, given the cost of litigation and expert testimonies, would eat up most if not all of the extra money you'd get anyway.

That's why we insure our collector cars with agreed value policies. I bought my Model A Roadster earlier this year for $14,500, which I consider a great deal for a car that had a frame-off restoration once and few miles and and a lot of upgrades since, but I have it insured for $23,900. This amount I received from trying to establish what I would have to pay for a car I could replace this with -- within a reasonable time frame -- should it be a total loss. No, it won't be the same color, will not have the same extras, but it should be a car that I feel good about. Since the insurance company agreed with my assessment, that $23,900 is what I would receive if the worst were to happen.

If I had a car like Marco's, I would put the amount much higher. With a detailed account of the restoration, ideally some awards to back this up, a customer could make the case that such a Roadster is worth $50K or $60K . . . I don't know. If the insurance company agrees, that's what the settlement would be. If someone tried to insure such a Roadster for $100K, the insurance company would not agree on that.

In the case in question, the owner of that Fordor should have upped his insurance amount to a point where he could find another car that he likes as much if not more than the one he previously had before it was stolen. I personally think he'll be able to get his old car back for less than $20K, but had he insured it for a bit more, he would have to worry less now. Collector car insurance is ridiculously cheap, as long as you don't have a 1929 Blower Bentley, a 1933 Duesenberg, and a 1935 Bugatti on your policy. There's really no good reason to underinsure a car one really likes.
 
In all the posts, Fordbarn, AACA and Lancaster Online, nobody mentioned the value of the closed trailer which has to be 5-7,000. If that was part of the settlement and he wants to buy it back he won't get them both for 20K.
 
Dave brought up a good point. I didn't see any mention of the trailer.
Could the trailer be covered under the homeowner's policy?
 
1931 flamingo said:
I myself wouldn't go near a car at auction/or private with a salvage /reconstruct title. This one being just stolen would be different, but a subsequent buyer, not knowing what/why the salvage title would/might be skeptical. Certainly with a salvage title it is worth much less money. JMO
Paul in CT
Click to expand...


Easy! All he has to do is print out a copy of the article about the car being stolen and staple it to the salvage title for an explanation of why the car has a salvage title.
 
it will still have a reconstructed title for life, but the article will help with resale and values in the future
 
Do insurance companies in the USA offer first salvage rights to the owner. The insurance company I use here in Australia offer me the salvage rights to the vehicle after recovery. So if the car is in an accident say, they will pay me out at agreed value, and then offer the car wreck to me at a set price, incase I want to rebuild the actual car. If I don't take up the recovery offer, the vehicle, or what's left will go to auction or be destroyed. Assuming I survived the accident. The company specialises in antique and collector vehicles, but will also cover everyday family cars as well.
 
dave in australia said:
Do insurance companies in the USA offer first salvage rights to the owner. The insurance company I use here in Australia offer me the salvage rights to the vehicle after recovery. So if the car is in an accident say, they will pay me out at agreed value, and then offer the car wreck to me at a set price, incase I want to rebuild the actual car. If I don't take up the recovery offer, the vehicle, or what's left will go to auction or be destroyed. Assuming I survived the accident. The company specialises in antique and collector vehicles, but will also cover everyday family cars as well.
Click to expand...

Quite a while ago I had that happen with me in an accident. They totaled the car, offered me the chance to buy it back. It was an older car and the damage was "minimal" but enough to total it. I spend a couple of hundred dollars and a couple of weekends and drove it into the ground 7 years later.

Today with all the worry about lawsuits, I don't know.
 
Last edited:
dave in australia said:
Do insurance companies in the USA offer first salvage rights to the owner. The insurance company I use here in Australia offer me the salvage rights to the vehicle after recovery. So if the car is in an accident say, they will pay me out at agreed value, and then offer the car wreck to me at a set price, incase I want to rebuild the actual car. If I don't take up the recovery offer, the vehicle, or what's left will go to auction or be destroyed. Assuming I survived the accident. The company specialises in antique and collector vehicles, but will also cover everyday family cars as well.
Click to expand...

Typically, no. The insurance folks have contracts with salvage yards for the remains. Storage fees would add up fast as cars set on lots and cases get settled. Sometimes part of the contract offsets the storage fees. I am pretty sure the insurance company went above and beyond in this case. I had a car catch fire and burn once, it had a motor in it that I had a LOT invested in. I asked if I could buy it back. Not only would they not sell it back to me, I was not even able to find out which Salvage company got it. Someone got one nice motor someplace. If you accept the settlement, they own the car.
 
QGolden said:
Typically, no. The insurance folks have contracts with salvage yards for the remains. Storage fees would add up fast as cars set on lots and cases get settled. Sometimes part of the contract offsets the storage fees. I am pretty sure the insurance company went above and beyond in this case. I had a car catch fire and burn once, it had a motor in it that I had a LOT invested in. I asked if I could buy it back. Not only would they not sell it back to me, I was not even able to find out which Salvage company got it. Someone got one nice motor someplace. If you accept the settlement, they own the car.
Click to expand...

my experiences are yes you can have a vehicle totalled get paid for it and buy it back for 10% of the value. it will come with a salvage title which here in pa you would have to apply for a reconstructed title to put it back on the road after repairs. i am not sure QGolden why they did that but i have been through this many many times here with my customers. this applys to regular and agreed value styles of insurance
 
That's good to know. Thank you for the correction.

My event occurred back in '78 or so. I was under the impression it always worked that way. Thanks for the correction. Sorry Dave, did not mean to spread bad info.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top