Car will not start after winter storage. I replaced points condenser plugs and timed it using the pin and checking to see that number one cylinder is all the way up. I sent the carburetor out to be rebuilt. I have a good spark from the coil wire to a head nut. After cranking awhile I get a back fire. I thinking that in order to get this backfire I must have spark and fuel. Im thinking must not be timed correctly Thinking that maybe the number one cylinder is up but not getting ready to fire I reset the rotter 180 degrees this made no change Don't know what to try next Gas is fresh.
still will not start
- Thread starter cjkohnast
- Start date
old fuel
SeaSlugs
Well-known member
crank for awhile and see if the plugs are wet. If it doesnt fire after repeated attempts you should smell raw fuel.
If plugs are dry then you have a fuel issue. Did you remember to turn on all shutoff valves? electric valve actually opening up if present?
carb set to a basic starting range (gav 1/2 turn open idle air 1.5 turns open)
when you say good spark is it nice bold blue?
pull the spark plug straps leaving an air gap and see if you have spark out of the distributor body.
when you put the carb back on did you shove the line all the way into the carb?
even old fuel eventually attempts to run (poorly) unless its several years old.
If plugs are dry then you have a fuel issue. Did you remember to turn on all shutoff valves? electric valve actually opening up if present?
carb set to a basic starting range (gav 1/2 turn open idle air 1.5 turns open)
when you say good spark is it nice bold blue?
pull the spark plug straps leaving an air gap and see if you have spark out of the distributor body.
when you put the carb back on did you shove the line all the way into the carb?
even old fuel eventually attempts to run (poorly) unless its several years old.
Patrick L.
Well-known member
Check for compression. Even a finger or palm will give you an indication.
Set points to .020" and make sure they are clean. Check for 6v at open point arm and zero v when point arm is closed.
If timing pin was set in timing gear hole then cylinder is at TDC on compression stroke.
left hand lever up. Set points to just open with all rotational slack removed. Rotation is CCW. Rotor should point toward right fender/headlight.
Check for spark at sparklers.
Check fuel flow to carburetor and thru carburetor. Fuel line should end just past ferrule by no more than 1/8".
Make sure carburetor adjustments are set. GAV at 1 turn to start. Idle air mixture at 1.5 turns.
If choke is used a little too much fuel should be noticed at throat air bleed and at choke plate.
Check to see if it tries to start upon letting off the starter button, if, it doesn't want to start while starter motor is spinning. Then we'll look at an excessive draw or bad connection.
Set points to .020" and make sure they are clean. Check for 6v at open point arm and zero v when point arm is closed.
If timing pin was set in timing gear hole then cylinder is at TDC on compression stroke.
left hand lever up. Set points to just open with all rotational slack removed. Rotation is CCW. Rotor should point toward right fender/headlight.
Check for spark at sparklers.
Check fuel flow to carburetor and thru carburetor. Fuel line should end just past ferrule by no more than 1/8".
Make sure carburetor adjustments are set. GAV at 1 turn to start. Idle air mixture at 1.5 turns.
If choke is used a little too much fuel should be noticed at throat air bleed and at choke plate.
Check to see if it tries to start upon letting off the starter button, if, it doesn't want to start while starter motor is spinning. Then we'll look at an excessive draw or bad connection.
Last edited:
H. L. Chauvin
Well-known member
Hi cj,
Per your statement: "I'm thinking must not be timed correctly"
After 747 million experts "tried" for 80+ years to describe "How to "simply" time a Model A." don't feel at all alone.
For the next 100 years this question will still be asked by intelligent people.
However, in trying to help, please, please, please try this:
A. Remove (4) plugs, turn switch "ON", push spark handle all the way upwards to retard timing.
B. Connect no. 1 plug, (by radiator), to no. 1 distributor lug, (by radiator), & lay no. 1 plug on its side to ground on head.
C. Rotate engine very slowly with crank until timing pin slips in ..... at this moment, no. 1 plug should fire ...... if not, engine is NOT timed.
D. If timed or not timed correctly, please let us know so you can successfully try Step Two. All of us are willing to insure that you get it started.
Per your statement: "I'm thinking must not be timed correctly"
After 747 million experts "tried" for 80+ years to describe "How to "simply" time a Model A." don't feel at all alone.
For the next 100 years this question will still be asked by intelligent people.
However, in trying to help, please, please, please try this:
A. Remove (4) plugs, turn switch "ON", push spark handle all the way upwards to retard timing.
B. Connect no. 1 plug, (by radiator), to no. 1 distributor lug, (by radiator), & lay no. 1 plug on its side to ground on head.
C. Rotate engine very slowly with crank until timing pin slips in ..... at this moment, no. 1 plug should fire ...... if not, engine is NOT timed.
D. If timed or not timed correctly, please let us know so you can successfully try Step Two. All of us are willing to insure that you get it started.
Jacksonlll
Well-known member
If it ran good when you put it away, you don't need any new parts and you did not need to retime it. Now you are chasing a ghost.
H. L. Chauvin
Well-known member
Hi cj,
I noticed that your first paragraph is very distinctly descriptive and really says a lot.
Not only your mentioning: "I'm thinking must not be timed correctly"; but also your adding:
"I reset the rotter 180 degrees this made no change"; hence, Reply no. 7 A thru 7. D. was "first" suggested.
Then in your saying, "I'm thinking must not be timed correctly", I think you are correct
because after logically checking timing, if ignition timing is correct "after" your playing with your rotor and turning your cam around, your valves are most probably sticking; hence, sticking valves means valves are "not" timed and very logically "always" causes backfiring.
Only intelligent people ask questions to try to find answers.
I noticed that your first paragraph is very distinctly descriptive and really says a lot.
Not only your mentioning: "I'm thinking must not be timed correctly"; but also your adding:
"I reset the rotter 180 degrees this made no change"; hence, Reply no. 7 A thru 7. D. was "first" suggested.
Then in your saying, "I'm thinking must not be timed correctly", I think you are correct
because after logically checking timing, if ignition timing is correct "after" your playing with your rotor and turning your cam around, your valves are most probably sticking; hence, sticking valves means valves are "not" timed and very logically "always" causes backfiring.
Only intelligent people ask questions to try to find answers.
Terry NJ
Well-known member
How did you turn it 180? It's "Key" at the bottom of the shaft is offset a few thousandths so it can't go in 180 off. Is the rotor turning? Did the key/tab shear off. Generally, if you put an intact car away, it comes out of storage the way it goes in. There is no way the distributor is going to reset itself. The things that can changes are the gas and the points may oxdize .
Terry
Im thinking must not be timed correctly Thinking that maybe the number one cylinder is up but not getting ready to fire I reset the rotter 180 degrees this made no change Don't know what to try next Gas is fresh.[/QUOTE]
Terry
Im thinking must not be timed correctly Thinking that maybe the number one cylinder is up but not getting ready to fire I reset the rotter 180 degrees this made no change Don't know what to try next Gas is fresh.[/QUOTE]
H. L. Chauvin
Well-known member
FWIW:
A Ignition Timing:
1. Confusing to some, with engine rotating, no.1 piston reaches TDC twice.
2 Once when timed correctly, and once when 180 out of correct timing.
3 Next, if one loosens the screw on top of the distributor shaft, one can easily rotate the distributor cam and rotor 180 degrees, 137 degrees, 19 degrees, 7 degrees, or what ever.
4 Proper timing occurs when spark handle is upwards with spark retarded, timing pin slips in, and no 1 plug fires ... so simple ..... really doesn't matter if the rotor is pointing northeast or pointing towards the north pole.
B Valve (Fuel) Timing:
1. Valve (fuel) timing has to be coordinated with ignition, (spark plug), timing to supply a fuel mixture to be ignited at a proper time.
2. Valves sticking in valve guides slows down valve up and down movement and prevents valves from opening and closing at proper times; hence, a spark plug can fire when there is no fuel in the combustion chamber causing the engine not to start
3 Depending on different outside climatic conditions and different inside garage climatic conditions, changes in different temperatures and different humidity in different areas of the US, condensation moisture can easily and quickly form on metal in some areas, thus causing ferric oxide, (rust) on valve stems and in valve guides.
4 Again with different climatic conditions, when rust is combined with evaporated petroleum materials, (gas & oil), sticky varnish can easily be present to impede the up & down motion of valves; hence, now the fuel may not be timed correctly to be coordinated with proper ignition timing.
5. Some have difficulty understanding that in some different areas of the U.S & World, and in some different storage garages, a Model A can easily acquire oxidized points and sticky valves when stored for just one (1) year.
A Ignition Timing:
1. Confusing to some, with engine rotating, no.1 piston reaches TDC twice.
2 Once when timed correctly, and once when 180 out of correct timing.
3 Next, if one loosens the screw on top of the distributor shaft, one can easily rotate the distributor cam and rotor 180 degrees, 137 degrees, 19 degrees, 7 degrees, or what ever.
4 Proper timing occurs when spark handle is upwards with spark retarded, timing pin slips in, and no 1 plug fires ... so simple ..... really doesn't matter if the rotor is pointing northeast or pointing towards the north pole.
B Valve (Fuel) Timing:
1. Valve (fuel) timing has to be coordinated with ignition, (spark plug), timing to supply a fuel mixture to be ignited at a proper time.
2. Valves sticking in valve guides slows down valve up and down movement and prevents valves from opening and closing at proper times; hence, a spark plug can fire when there is no fuel in the combustion chamber causing the engine not to start
3 Depending on different outside climatic conditions and different inside garage climatic conditions, changes in different temperatures and different humidity in different areas of the US, condensation moisture can easily and quickly form on metal in some areas, thus causing ferric oxide, (rust) on valve stems and in valve guides.
4 Again with different climatic conditions, when rust is combined with evaporated petroleum materials, (gas & oil), sticky varnish can easily be present to impede the up & down motion of valves; hence, now the fuel may not be timed correctly to be coordinated with proper ignition timing.
5. Some have difficulty understanding that in some different areas of the U.S & World, and in some different storage garages, a Model A can easily acquire oxidized points and sticky valves when stored for just one (1) year.
H. L. Chauvin
Well-known member
FWIW:
With anyone at any time asking Forum questions about anything from miles away, and with no subsequent continuing Forum communication, we are all just about like sailors in a submarine at midnight, trying to guess how many Cokes are left in the East Coke Machine in the basement of the Fort Knox Vault Building.
With anyone at any time asking Forum questions about anything from miles away, and with no subsequent continuing Forum communication, we are all just about like sailors in a submarine at midnight, trying to guess how many Cokes are left in the East Coke Machine in the basement of the Fort Knox Vault Building.
Big hammer
Well-known member
H.L. I know the answer to how many Coke's are left!
Same answer to how many dead people are in the cemetery!
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
If you "think" it's not getting GAS, blow some propane from an UNLIT torch, into the rear of the carb. (Very SAFE!)
Bill W.
Bill W.
Gary WA
Well-known member
Started Yet??
1955cj5
Well-known member
There is another thread that is more of a continuation of this thread....
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222385
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222385
