Starts with hand crank only

G

Gold Digger

Well-known member
Yesterday I drove my 1930 tudor 168 miles with out any problem whats so ever. Started every time I called on it and it never failed. OK today it started fine and I drove into town which is 16 miles and it died at a stop light and couldn't get it to start with the starter. So I check and my coil wire and every think was in place. So I get the hand crank out and it starts with a half turn. Something is pulling the juice off the coil when the starter is being used. What could it be? Could the coil be going bad or the condenser? It has one of those burn out free condenser in it. I used to have this problem with the old flat head v8s but can't Rember what I did to fix the problem.
 
It sounds as though there is too much drag on the starter. Many times though the engine will start when the foot is taken off the starter button.

Is the battery being charged ? Ammeter reading ?
 
When you try to start the motor on the starter, does it turn over slowly?
I suspect your battery has thrown in the towel. It can happen very suddenly. Even a "dead" battery can supply enough power to give a spark, hence you can start it on the crank handle but there is not enough depth to it to give a spark while it is cranking.
If you are able, measure and post a couple of voltage figures. One with an open circuit, the other while you crank the starter.
Another possibility is the cut out has failed and power is being lost through the generator.
 
The starter turns the engine over almost as fast as if it was a 12 volt. I have an alternator and it keeps the battery fully charged. Sometimes the starter whirls the engine fast enough that when I let off the starter peddle the engine starts.
 
Gold Digger said:
The starter turns the engine over almost as fast as if it was a 12 volt. I have an alternator and it keeps the battery fully charged. Sometimes the starter whirls the engine fast enough that when I let off the starter peddle the engine starts.
Click to expand...


There you go. Check the system voltage as you are cranking the engine with the starter. Probably either the starter is drawing to many amps or the battery is weak.
 
My coupe, 6 volt positive ground all stock, would only start when I let off the starter. New battery fixed it. It’s hard to understand that the battery is strong enough to spin the starter normally, but not have enough left to power the ignition circuit, but that’s what happens. At least, in my case, the battery was the problem. Your experience may be different.

W. Michael
 
It’s a pain in the back but remove the battery and have it load checked at an automotive parts store ! My dad sold batteries and one Sunday family outing the station wagon wouldn’t start, one of dad’s customers stopped to give us a jump start after finding the electrolyte was low, dad was embarrassed when the customer said don’t you sell batteries.
 
Bob C #5 has got it .. I had the same problem as OP . turned out to be a duff starter drawing all the juice . ( I used to get round it by spinning the motor with the ignition key off then letting off the starter whilst simultaneously switching on the ignition switch.
 
Installing a voltmeter in addition to the ammeter can provide you with the necessary information. It can tell you the battery voltage before you start the car, the battery voltage when the starter is cranking, and the battery voltage when it is charging. Hook it up to the one of the posts on the junction box so any resistance in the battery cables can also be detected.
 
Gold,
On ours it turned out to be the points. Installed a nos set almost three years ago and have had no more start problems since. Dale
 
Specs for the OEM starter motor are:
Running free (0n the bench) 50 Amps @ 6V, 4000 RPM;
Cranking engine 145 to 165 Amps @ 5.1V dependent on temperature & compression ratio;

Lock torque 15 lbs-ft, 550 Amps, 3.2V.
 
Run a ground strap from the transmission tower directly to battery ground. The ground path from the engine/trans back to the battery can be interrupted if you don’t have engine splash pans.
 
I experienced very similar symptoms when trying to start my car. I finally replaced the condenser and the car started fine.
 
Just had the battery load tested and it tested real good at the battery store. By the way it is a Optima battery. The starter spins the engine over like it had a 12 volt hooked to it. Still not found the problem.
 
I've seen it happen, not with a starter, but with the horn and headlights. When the horn was going, the LED lights would drop out. The problem was in the wiring – there was degraded wiring somewhere between the starter and the generator. This caused the battery to deliver 6V to the lights when the horn wasn't running, but only 4V when it was. Changing out the wiring fixed the problem.

One troubleshooting tactic is to connect a test lead directly between the post on the starter switch and the red wire on the coil. This eliminates all wiring between the battery and the distributor except for the ignition switch. If it starts with the lead connected, the problem is somewhere in the wiring.
 
X2, post #15, Colin. The Les Andrews blue book, 'troubleshooting and diagnostics' chapter 2 covers simple tests for these conditions.
 
Synchro909 has a good point. Try starting the engine with the alternator disconnected. Charge up your battery with a battery charger and measure the voltage with a multimeter. You should have 5.5 - 6.5 volts. If your coil, points, condenser, and starter are all okay you should be able to start the engine. The engine will start with a minimum voltage of 1.5 volts. That why you were able to start it by cranking. If the engine starts shut it down and measure the battery voltage. If the voltage has radically dropped off your battery should be replaced. If it hasn't the alternator or cut out are the next components to be checked.
 
Gold Digger said:
Yesterday I drove my 1930 tudor 168 miles with out any problem whats so ever. Started every time I called on it and it never failed. OK today it started fine and I drove into town which is 16 miles and it died at a stop light and couldn't get it to start with the starter. So I check and my coil wire and every think was in place. So I get the hand crank out and it starts with a half turn. Something is pulling the juice off the coil when the starter is being used. What could it be? Could the coil be going bad or the condenser? It has one of those burn out free condenser in it. I used to have this problem with the old flat head v8s but can't Rember what I did to fix the problem.
Click to expand...

The first thing I would check is the battery cable connections. If you have the braided ground strap to frame, replace it with a cable directly to the transmission as someone else suggested.
 
I Made a duplex cable for mine…the rubber and spring
motor mounts make a poor ground path, as well as the driveshaft trunnion ( clamshell at back of the transmission).
 

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