Starting...

B

Beauford

Well-known member
So I am ready to start rebuilt engine and chassis. Fully charged battery with positive ground. Starter bolts are original and have started another engine before o no they are not too long. When pressing the starter it will only turn a few inches. I noticed a little smoke in starter area. Starter and wires are cool (rebuilt starter that has worked on previous motor) Weird thing is the throttle linkage is HOT....not real sure how thats happening. I kept the coil and terminal box all wired together that started previous engine with no problem. I am reading 6v from battery, starter, coil, terminal box, gen and coil. One thing that did happen was the dog chasing something in the garage and knocked over the battery from about 4 feet while on charge...no cracks but not sure if that could be causing current issues.
 
If throttle linkage is hot then you have a poor ground from frame to battery and ground current is going through the linkage.

Try hooking a jumper cable from (clean, unpainted) frame to ground on engine (unpainted bolt/nut) then crank engine ... if it cranks faster and linkage stays cool then you should install good 6 volt jumper cable from frame to a transmission bolt.

In Addition: Even better remove the ground cable and hot side cable from battery and frame end clean contacts on all contact areas.

Could be someone installed 12 volt cables which do not carry enough current.

Sometimes if ground is bad the fuel line will get hot and boil the gasoline inside line causing the "dreaded vapor lock" condition.
 
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get a clean path from engine to frame rail as well. Sounds like you got alot of paint in places. There isn't a good ground from engine to battery.its either the the brake rods, front motor mount springs, or down the torque tube thru the rear spring, or thru the steering column rods and gearbox. If you need a temp solution a jumper cable from a head nut to the frame rail or battery terminal itself will work.
 
Also use "star" washers on the ground point to the frame.

They make a star washer with two sets of sharp points, one on outside of washer and one near the inner hole of star washer for better contact.

I can not find any good pictures on Google at the moment ...
 
What is the primary engine to frame ground path?
On a stock Model A it is a combination of the following:

 Front engine mount - Floats on a spring, always loose, not a solid electrical connection. If freshly painted a very poor high current path.

Rear engine mounts - Bolts through rubber with spacers, not a solid electrical connection. If freshly painted a poor high current path.

Fuel line - (gasp!) - Electrical conn to tank/cowl/body that sits on blocks/pads with bolts that connect to frame. If frame is freshly painted a poor high current path. I've seen fuel lines get real hot from cranking if other paths on this list are missing.

Vacuum line - Electrical conn to firewall. Same problem as fuel line.

Drive train - Thru grease/oil and across machined surfaces, then thru rear spring, not a solid electrical connection.

Engine pans - Electrical connection to engine and frame. If freshly painted a poor high current path.

Metal popout switch cable (Yikes!) I've seen one get RED HOT when some items on this list were not in place!!

Brake rods - A loose assembly from pedal shaft to axles to springs to frame.

Throttle linkage - Not a solid electrical connection. Across loose lubricated moveable points.

This is why, on a non-fine point car, many people add a ground lead from a ****** bolt to the same frame bolt the battery ground strap attaches to.
 
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MikeK said:
What is the primary engine to battery ground path?
On a stock Model A it is a combination of the following:

 Front engine mount - Floats on a spring, always loose, not a solid electrical connection. If freshly painted a very poor high current path.

Rear engine mounts - Bolts through rubber with spacers, not a solid electrical connection. If freshly painted a poor high current path.

Fuel line - (gasp!) - Electrical conn to tank/cowl/body that sits on blocks/pads with bolts that connect to frame. If frame is freshly painted a poor high current path. I've seen fuel lines get real hot from cranking if other paths on this list are missing.

Vacuum line - Electrical conn to firewall. Same problem as fuel line.

Drive train - Thru grease/oil and across machined surfaces, then thru rear spring, not a solid electrical connection.

Engine pans - Electrical connection to engine and frame. If freshly painted a poor high current path.

Metal popout switch cable (Yikes!) I've seen one get RED HOT when some items on this list were not in place!!

Throttle linkage, Not a solid electrical connection. Across loose lubricated moveable points.

This is why, on a non-fine point car, many people add a ground lead from a ****** bolt to the same frame bolt the battery ground strap attaches to.
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yea there really should be a dedicated engine to framerail ground...bad/poor/ever changing grounds can cause a whole host of engine/starting problems.

Im using a smallish braided cable from each side of the oil pan to each frame rail. Cleaned to bare metal both ends.

I still say factory fresh rear engine mounts do not have any electrical path to the frame rail. Rubber insulates everything too well, from the egnine mount you have the metal spacers and bolt heads, but the spacers are insulated from the rail by rubber and the outside plate is insulated from the frame rail by rubber so there is no metal contact, its gotta go to the front or rear or other various rods...
 
Try cranking it with plugs OUT & a little oil in the cylinders. There's a LOT of FRICTION in NEW cylinders! "Sometimes" you have to tow a car, on initial start up.
Bill W.
 
It should be noted that the starter draws 100 to 125 amps or so when cranking.

lights are around 10 -12 amps stock lights to about 16 amps with sealed beams. Horn draws about 5 amps and etc.

That being said the heating of parts like fuel line and etc caused by poor grounds will only happen when starter is cranking.

The current drops way off without starter cranking.
 
SeaSlugs said:
yea there really should be a dedicated engine to framerail ground...bad/poor/ever changing grounds can cause a whole host of engine/starting problems.

Im using a smallish braided cable from each side of the oil pan to each frame rail. Cleaned to bare metal both ends.

I still say factory fresh rear engine mounts do not have any electrical path to the frame rail. Rubber insulates everything too well, from the egnine mount you have the metal spacers and bolt heads, but the spacers are insulated from the rail by rubber and the outside plate is insulated from the frame rail by rubber so there is no metal contact, its gotta go to the front or rear or other various rods...
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Plus 2
 
She's turning! Now a few more adjustments and gonna drive a chassis around town and get a ticket! This is gonna be fun!! Thanks guys!!!!
 
Jacksonlll said:
Most of us run a ground cable from the frame to the trans.
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Jack. That has solved the problem. I was limited with short ground strap from vendors. Went to auto store and got a longer one!

BTW...if you are responsible for all those great videos on youtube, thank you! You helped build this running chassis!!!
 
I guess my cars are screwed up :rolleyes: because they start fine with just the original set up thats been in place for the last 87 years:confused:

Maybe its because all my connections and components are clean and up to spec :cool:

I think where people run into trouble is 87 years of rust and grime...then adding another cable or three solves the resistance caused from that.. the original design is getting a bad wrap.

This is my 5 cents and I'm sticking to it:)
 
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CarlG said:
Even a 12v cable for an additional ground is better than no cable at all.
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I ran a 12 volt cable from the frame to the transmission bolt just for a extra ground and it made a word of difference. In the charging system and the starter spins like no tomorrow :) It's one happy Model A :D
Glad I did it!
 
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