starter solenoid

[Flat Ernie]

I think "All things being equal, 6 volt components draw twice the amperage of 12 volt components. That means that contacts in switches and relays, commutators & brushes in starters and generators, and wiring and battery cables, must be capable of handling more current in 6 volt units than 12 volt units. So in this respect 6 volt parts ARE heavier duty."

Actually, 12V pulls double the current/amperage than 6V. Ohms law is: I = E/R (Current = Voltage/Resistance), so if you double voltage, you double current, so long as resistance stays the same.

The wiring, switches, cables, etc are larger because 6V cannot handled a voltage drop as well as a 12V system can...the resistance per/foot goes down as the wire gauge goes up (number gets smaller). In a 6V system, this is significant.

 

[Jack E/NJ]

>>>the resistance per/foot goes down as the wire gauge goes up >>>

Shouldn't the last word in the above quote be "down"? 8^)

Jack E/NJ

 

[cmbrucew]

View attachment wire guage per length amps.pdf

Here is a chart that may be helpful.
Bruce

 

[flatheadmurre]

Actually, 12V pulls double the current/amperage than 6V. Ohms law is: I = E/R (Current = Voltage/Resistance), so if you double voltage, you double current, so long as resistance stays the same.

The wiring, switches, cables, etc are larger because 6V cannot handled a voltage drop as well as a 12V system can...the resistance per/foot goes down as the wire gauge goes up (number gets smaller). In a 6V system, this is significant.

A 6v system uses twice the current !
And its all about power, you have the same power in the starter and the light bulbs.
To get the same power with less voltage you need more amps.
The resistance is something you have to take care about with bigger cables to allow the current needed to flow.
To small cables you get resistance and dim lights/slow turning starter.
And this is the reason 6v needs bigger cables then 12v.

 

[supereal]

The original starter solenoids for Ford had one small terminal that went to the button which furnished ground to pull the contacts. The battery voltage was furnished from the battery "hot" side large terminal. Later, the solenoids were sold as "universal" with two small terminals. These are connected to the end of the coil inside the unit. If you wanted (or needed) to use the stock dash button, one small terminal was connected by a jumper to the battery. If the button furnished battery, the other small terminal is grounded.

 

[fordson]

Thank you for the detailed explanation.
Il be getting the Cole Hersee 24060 solenoid as suggested by JSeery and John, Rich of Standard Magneto was also very helpfull and is checking on some NOS prestolite USA made solenoids they carry. I understand the connection of the 4 stud solenoid as well, but have no reference or specs for a particular make or brand.
Although vintage 12V steel case NOS solenoids ( Filco / Prestolite / Delco Remy or other ) are available on e-bay, there are no specs available to line of duty or amps, so its a gamble really not knowing exactly how they work and if they are applicable.

 

[JSeery]

Per the Cole Hersee catalog these numbers cross-reference to the 24060:

BWD S447
Prestolite 15-164, 15-212, 15-254, SAE-4004M, SAW-4205M, SAW-4211 & SAW-4218
Standard 55-587

Note: Some of these must be functional replacements, looked up the Standard 55-587 and it is the black plastic case style.

The Prestolite 15-164 looks good: http://www.elreg.com/15-164-12volt-200amp-prestolite-switches-intermittent-duty.html

Same with 15-212: http://www.elreg.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=15-212

And 15-254: http://www.elreg.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=15-254

SAE & SAW numbers look like they are just alternate numbers for the 15- parts.

 

[41 Ford Pickup]

I have been having battery and starting issues with my 1941 Ford 1/2 ton V8 pickup. It is new to me and stock 6V positive ground. I bought a new starter solenoid because the original is rusted. The new solenoid from Macs matches the old one and looks similar to the one you have pictured above.
The current solenoid is mounted with the auxillary starting switch to the top. The thumbnails above show the switch at the bottom. My shop manual shows it both ways. Up makes more sense to me. Up or down changes the driver and passenger sides and how you connect the cables.
As it came from the previous owner, the negative battery cable goes to the driver side of the solenoid and a ground strap also goes from the driver side solenoid to the engine.
What is right?

 

[KGS]

Starter button on the bottom; Neg. bat. cable on the inside; starter cable on the outside of the solenoid.

 

[JSeery]

I have been having battery and starting issues with my 1941 Ford 1/2 ton V8 pickup. It is new to me and stock 6V positive ground. I bought a new starter solenoid because the original is rusted. The new solenoid from Macs matches the old one and looks similar to the one you have pictured above.
The current solenoid is mounted with the auxillary starting switch to the top. The thumbnails above show the switch at the bottom. My shop manual shows it both ways. Up makes more sense to me. Up or down changes the driver and passenger sides and how you connect the cables.
As it came from the previous owner, the negative battery cable goes to the driver side of the solenoid and a ground strap also goes from the driver side solenoid to the engine.
What is right?

Need to be sure it is wired properly or it will not work. The battery (the negative post on a positive ground system) has to be connected to the solenoid post that is internally wired to the starter button post (the smaller one in the center of the solenoid). If you have a volt meter it is easy to check to see which of the two large post has continuity to the starter post. In the diagram post (3) is the battery connection, post (2) is the starter button connection and post (1) is the starter connection.

 

[V8COOPMAN]

This is ANOTHER of those VERY OLD threads.......2010! DD