Start up after 40 years .

john charlton

john charlton

Well-known member
Just watched a well meaning soul start a Briggs fordor which had been in a barn for 40 years . He was very pleased he got it to run not knowing what was lurking in the valve chest and oil pan . He is going to have the engine rebuilt with inserts etc etc so I suppose no harm done . I was like watching a horror movie !!!

John in sunshine and showers Suffolk County England .
 
Some folks don't have the patience or knowledge to know better. I figure they can learn by asking the folks with experience or by the school of hard knocks. Folks due crazy stuff every day God bless um.
 
I have personally started a car that was sitting in a barn since WWII in 1980.

Put some gas in it, a battery, and water in the radiator. Car started right up. Valves were noisy but engine didn’t smoke at all.

Got car home. New hoses, plugs, points, dropped pan and cleaned (was not bad at all), new clutch, pressure plate, throw out and pilot bearings. That’s all engine needed for 40 years.

Rebuilt brakes, front end, new springs and shocks, paint and interior, top. But! Engine needed no further work.

Things aren’t always bad. Some cars were put away because they were just out of style and not worth anything at the time.

Enjoy.
 
With a an engine idle for so long and with the old non-detergent oil, a check on the dipstick will often show oil that appears nearly new - practically clear. All the dirt and sludge has settled out and may be plugging up the oil passages. If run long enough, some major bearing damage may result.
 
Folks throwing up red flags about starting an engine that has been idle for a long time reminds me of all the news outlets.
They yell, that it is possible for this bad thing to happen or that bad thing to happen. Yes anything could happen but for the most part it doesn't happen. It just happens to help them sell advertising and make them more money.

Not saying it hasn't happened but I have yet to see where someone has shown where they have damaged an engine by starting it after a long slumber.

That said I certainly don't suggest someone takes one of those engines and runs the heck out of it without opening it up for a look. But a quick start after squirting some oil into the cylinders to see if it runs and doesn't go clackety clunk to see if there is hope for it isn't a major bugaboo for me.
 
I have never seen an engine, Model A or not that has "slept" for that long. I'm starting to think they are just not about here. That said, I think I'd clean out the sump, squirt some oil down the bores, check the radiator (it'll probably clog up with all the rust that will start to move) and spark, then give it a whirl. Most likely, it will start - assuming there is compression.
I doubt any serious damage would be done.
 
It wasn’t a model A,Why do you want to take the pan off???, they already had it running!
When the pan was dropped there was a perfect impression of the oil pickup screen and a inch of sludge, obvious that oil flow had to be severely restricted.After it was cleaned it seemed ok, 22 miles later it had rod knock.
Another engine I took apart had been turned over religiously every month to prevent any problems , had oil poured into cylinders to keep it from rusting, but there was some water in the pan that had frozen inside the oil pump, when it was cranked over in the winter the frozen oil pump didn’t turn, the drive tang was sheared off. —— why do you want to take the pan off, there can’t be anything wrong, I cranked it over every month, nothing is stuck.
Why do you want to take the pan off?, it’s been stored inside, nobody has touched it except my grandson, I let him sit in it and play—— pan was full of pebbles, the car had been “fed” because it was hungry.
Proudly the dipstick is removed, the clean oil is shown, it sat so long all the dirt settled to the bottom.
Yes, a few engines there was nothing wrong and no debris.
 
The valve chest is also a condensation "factory" I have taken the door off to find the valve springs red with rust ready to drop debris down the main bearing feed holes .The engine is not sealed and breathes as humidity and temprature changes over the seasons . In some cases of course correct storage in a dry climate saves the day . Here in England a long time barn find will be not so lucky . I always check before I run most all engines need a crank case /oil pan and valve chest clean .
 
The model A with its drip and dipper oil feed is more vulnerable than say a 1940 216 Chevy 6-cylinder. Many years of setting virtually reduces the oil film in most bottom end bearings to a non lubricant plus all the soap tends to settle out and go to the bottom of the gallery and pan components. The soap is hard and can partially block passages. If the engine is started this way with old oil that may have a layer of water in the bottom then it takes a long time to get a good lubricant pumped up into the valve chamber in enough quantity to start feeding down to the mains. What happens to the mains when they are operated for a minute or two with no oil feed?

At the very minimum, the oil should be drained and the sump refilled. The distributor should be pulled and at least one quart of oil poured in there to the valve chest to get some oil to the mains right away. I say minimum because a person still doesn't know what else lurks inside there prior to start up. Squirting oil in the cylinders is a given to try and get the rings to seat after years of setting. What was the condition of the cylinder walls. Rust is hard on rings and may cause them to stick in the piston grooves. Stuck valves? More than likely.

The list goes on. I suggest folks at least do the minimum to protect what they already have. Babbitt is soft and can easily be damaged. If the engine was having problems before it was relegated to the back of the shed then those problems will soon become apparent.
 
rotorwrench said:
The model A with its drip and dipper oil feed is more vulnerable than say a 1940 216 Chevy 6-cylinder. Many years of setting virtually reduces the oil film in most bottom end bearings to a non lubricant plus all the soap tends to settle out and go to the bottom of the gallery and pan components. The soap is hard and can partially block passages. If the engine is started this way with old oil that may have a layer of water in the bottom then it takes a long time to get a good lubricant pumped up into the valve chamber in enough quantity to start feeding down to the mains. What happens to the mains when they are operated for a minute or two with no oil feed?

At the very minimum, the oil should be drained and the sump refilled. The distributor should be pulled and at least one quart of oil poured in there to the valve chest to get some oil to the mains right away. I say minimum because a person still doesn't know what else lurks inside there prior to start up. Squirting oil in the cylinders is a given to try and get the rings to seat after years of setting. What was the condition of the cylinder walls. Rust is hard on rings and may cause them to stick in the piston grooves. Stuck valves? More than likely.

The list goes on. I suggest folks at least do the minimum to protect what they already have. Babbitt is soft and can easily be damaged. If the engine was having problems before it was relegated to the back of the shed then those problems will soon become apparent.
Click to expand...

Well, that 216 Chevy also has dippers on the rods and not much pressure to the mains.
 
Back in the day I would drop a free engine in my car and just drive it. Now I would take it completely apart for an inspection. The cars and engines have gotten too valuable to not do the inspection.
 
I just did it 3 years ago with an engine that had not run since 78.
Fired it dry, had oil in the sump which was super clean on the dip stick, it only ran on 3 for a few seconds and I shut it down. As was mentioned before the condensation build up under the side plate was scary, turned out the oil was so clean because it had separated over those yrs and the amount of sludge in the pan and clogged oil pump would have murdered the Babbitt had I run it for any amount of time. The dipper tray had also rusted through in 2 of the trays. Lesson learnt and never again.
That said,I cleaned the bottom end out with a kero spray several times, replaced the tray, cleaned out the pump and tightened up the big ends ,rotated the dry motor several times over a few days on an engine stand blowing out as much rust as possible then made a tank up to flush the block further after start up, freed up #4 exhaust valve and have had 3+ years of trouble free motor, the clutch,brakes, steering and everything else was another story.
 
What we got away with many years ago is not necessarily going to work now because everything is that much older and more victimized by the ravages of time. Present company excluded. :)
 
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