Speedsters at the MARC MEET

I'd be very interested in a SIG dealing with speedsters- I'm starting a build now and would like to connect with other like minded individuals.

I don't really understand the "snobbery" from traditional model A people- Speedsters were a thing "back in the day", and at least when dealing with a build like mine aren't using a whole restorable original car, just assorted parts gathered together and saved from the shame of rat-roddery...
 
Andgott said:
I'd be very interested in a SIG dealing with speedsters- I'm starting a build now and would like to connect with other like minded individuals.

I don't really understand the "snobbery" from traditional model A people- Speedsters were a thing "back in the day", and at least when dealing with a build like mine aren't using a whole restorable original car, just assorted parts gathered together and saved from the shame of rat-roddery...
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Well unfortunately, this is how History becomes skewed when preservation is incorrectly applied. In other words, when a fabricated story gets told enough times over the years, the fabricated story is often argued as being truth.

To answer your points above, ...Speedsters were definitely a 'thing' in the teens through early thirties by different marques however this really is not an era where the Model-A was a participant. Rarely was a brand-new Ford Model-A purchased, dismantled, and a home-built body fabricated and installed. This Model-A Speedster concept is something that was fabricated many years later.

As far as 'understanding the snobbery' comment, you likely need to first understand the premise of what both Model-A clubs were founded upon. The loosely stated intent of both clubs was "To promote the collecting, restoration, and the preservation of the 1928-1931 Ford Model-A as they were originally manufactured.". The original intent of both clubs was to be a gathering of Model-As how they were originally manufactured. Hence the reason why the club has painstakingly embraced the Restoration Guidelines & Judging Standards book along with many other booklets created to help the Restorer with an authentic restoration. With that said, in the era of 1928 thru 1931, Ford did not include a 'speedster' in their offerings, and as such there is not any information produced to promote the Speedster.

So it really is not 'snobbery' when the club did not want their club to focus on Corvettes, Mustangs, Street Rods -or even Model-Ts or V8 Fords. Over time both clubs have lowered their original mission standards to allow modified Model-As to participate, -and as I mentioned above, it is my opinion the acceptance of Model-A Speedsters is much greater today than say two or three decades ago.
 
Ford dealers in the teens, 20's and 30's also sold aftermarket speedster bodies and speed equipment. If Henry found this objectionable, I'm sure that he would have made it a point in the dealer franchise agreement.
 
True, new A's weren't bought an stripped of their bodies to make speedsters. Most were made on old (cheap) Model T's. By the time A's were old and cheap, speedsters were long past being desirable, as this would have been post WWII, and modern, more streamlined cars were being built, and were more fashionable.
 
A little history from the time between world wars in SoCal. Muroc dry lake today is Edwards AFB where they landed the Shuttle. Since just after WWII the racing moved to El Mirage. The Secrets of Speed Society magazine always has interesting historic articles and reprints of ads for period performance parts - https://www.secretsofspeed.com/

https://kustomrama.com/wiki/Muroc_Dry_Lake


1948 El Mirage photos - https://www.motortrend.com/features/priceless-images-1948-capture-dry-lakes-racing-el-mirage/photos/


MAFCA judging has adapted to have several classes based on the extent of modifications. My 29 is not eligible for judging due to it's 16" wheels. Yes MAFCA allows 1935 straight spoke wheels but my 1936 bent spoke wheels are a disqualifier.

Modified Class (Green Ribbon)

The Modified Class accommodates those members who appreciate the Model A, but prefer to make changes that may improve safety, comfort, convenience, serviceability or mechanical reliability. Vehicles in the Modified Class include: 1) stock bodied vehicles that are registered for street use and 2) open wheeled (no or limited fenders) era-type speedsters or race track vehicles. Only era speed equipment is acceptable. No replica vehicles are allowed.

https://www.mafca.com/v_classifications.html


70 years of performance 4 cylinder Fords built before 1932.

MAFCA's Four Ever Four chapter - https://www.foureverfour.com/
 
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Hello, post 11 is probably right, after restoring a few Model A ,s the wife wants you to do something with all those parts in the backyard, makes it hard for her to mow around!
 
denis4x4 said:
Ford dealers in the teens, 20's and 30's also sold aftermarket speedster bodies and speed equipment. If Henry found this objectionable, I'm sure that he would have made it a point in the dealer franchise agreement.
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Denis, unfortunately this opinion is pretty much incorrect on several levels for as many reasons. Ford called their 'dealers' Agencies, -and I have a couple of copies of early contracts between Ford and his Agencies. It was VERY clear what these Agencies could, ...and what they could not sell. It even contractually addressed the sales price these Agencies were to sell a new vehicle, parts, and even their labor for. So we can be assured that Ford DID have objection to their Agencies selling non-authorized parts.

Can anyone show us advertisements of era (-before 1931) aftermarket speedster bodies built specifically for the Model-A chassis?? Also, maybe show us some advertisements of 'speed equipment' during this same era. To be clear, we are speaking of aftermarket speed equipment, and not power adder equipment designed for AA trucks to compete against other trucks with more power. (For example, a 2P Riley or Miller head was not sold for racing during 1928-1931 era.) Again, both club's mission statement is for Ford Model-As produced as a 1928-1931 era vehicle.
 
This ad from December 1930 specifically references the use of the Riley overhead conversion in cars racing at Muroc Dry Lake (at the October 1930 Muroc event).

As I understand it, the 2 Port Riley was sold during this time in three forms: one for increased auto acceleration performance, a second high compression form for racing, and a third version for increasing truck performance.

So it does appear that the Riley 2 port overhead conversion was sold and used for speed racing applications during the Model A era.
 

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clifforddward said:
This ad from December 1930 specifically references the use of the Riley overhead conversion in cars racing at Muroc Dry Lake (at the October 1930 Muroc event).

As I understand it, the 2 Port Riley was sold during this time in three forms: one for increased auto acceleration performance, a second high compression form for racing, and a third version for increasing truck performance.

So it does appear that the Riley 2 port overhead conversion was sold and used for speed racing applications during the Model A era.
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I need to dig a little further into this as I always understood his 2P which was introduced in 1930 was a power adder and his 4P was the racing version. You gotta watch some of these claims. Who else had overheads at that time? George said it out-performed all of the other overheads but again, who was the competition?? Also, this was before SCTA sanctioning, so was it a AAA sanctioned event that verified the 100mph? Could it have been a Riley promoted event??

I suppose it doesn't really matter since these were not authorize by Ford, -nor promoted by Ford Agencies. So it really does not fit within what either Model-A club intended their member's cars to have.
 
There is a lot of history in Charlie Yapp's Secrets of Speed magazines. https://www.secretsofspeed.com/secrets-of-speed-society


I don't think there is any difference between the terms "power adder" and "speed equipment" - they both relate to increasing performance.


Four Ever Four is a MAFCA chapter dedicated to the preservation, celebration and promotion of early Ford four-cylinder vehicles. As a club it's 5 years older than MAFCA. https://www.foureverfour.com/history/ You'd be amazed at what these guys are still doing modifying combustion chamber design, cam profiles, etc. SCTA has classes that specifically require vintage blocks - no Burtz or Donovans.

Here is the new V4 record setter at 174.6 set 4 days ago. V4 has OHV V4F is the flathead 4cyl. That record is 115 set in 2020. The lakesters with these engines run about 20-30 mph faster (140 on El Mirage). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn9yB8VmMnM Here is a 2013 video of a flathead 4 Streamliner setting the record at 133 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8NnnpT1KQU
There was also the Russetta Timing Assn. It was started because SCTA did not allow closed cars to race. It lasted until the early 1960s.



MAFCA Modified judging class:
5 Carburetor (up draft or down draft/single or dual era).
6 Intake manifold (up draft or down draft/single or dual era).
10 Exhaust manifold headers.
15 Any non-stock era head, originally designed for an A, B, or C block (finned, aluminum, overhead, or any pre-war head of a non-Ford manufacturer, such as Cyclone, Chevrolet, Miller, etc.).
 
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