Something Unique About `41 Ford Engine

[CajunCrawfish]

The 59 marked engine noted by Cajun above is postwar.
On the uniqueness of '41...there is something but I do not know what. In looking at Merc/truck 239 listings, there is a 19A block (1941 number) and a 29A block (1942 and wartime number) noted. Probably there is similar in 221 flavor. What the difference between 19A and 29A I don't know. There is little in the literature because each new block version, 19 and 29 and 59, became a replacement.
One suspicion is that the difference may be metallurgy rather than design...before the war, I think in 1941, be began stockpiling alloying elements to prepare for the storm and auto builders were charged with finding ways to conserve or eliminate the critical imported materials. I bet this is the difference, for instance, between a 91A rod and a 21A rod...

Here is the issue with my block: It has raised intake like 41-42 the 46 is flat. It has circle water ports like the mercury of 41-42 with the raised intake surface but it also has the #59 cast into the bellhousing.
Have a look at the link picture and actual pics of my truck in disassembly.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1942ford/7417573320/in/photostream/

 

[Bruce Lancaster]

I think Suhr found one of those...The 59 makes it definitely late, I think best flying guess is that the earliest 59's still used some wartime cores in the casting.
I would suspect valve angles will be 59 style to match the 59. Is lowest center water hole early trapezoidal style or 59 round style??
I have heard somewhere that valve angle and water hole changes actually began in late WWII days and there may thus be 29 blocks with some 59 Features, but on yours the 59 on block makes it late and definitely not a 29.

 

[1936ford64]

A side note, 60 years ago my friend had abeautiful 1942 convertible and it came new with stainless and steel trim mixed. The steel trim was plated with not a very bright plating,maybe cadnium or zinc. My 42 had plated hubcaps, the plating was on bare steel without a binder plating.

 

[JM 35 Sedan]

True, but wasn't it pretty much a foregone conclusion that America would be in the war long before Pearl Harbor happened? Also, a bunch of war materials were already being sent to the Allies before we were involved. It's not like we decided it was time to start making preparations in Dec 1941. The writing was on the wall long before then.

Exactly!! Correct!! Etc.

 

[keith oh]

So, If a 1935 221 engine is bored out to .040, is it a 239 Cu. In.?

 

[Bruce Lancaster]

No, but if you bore it 1/8 it will be...but that is very risky on pre-1937 engines. Much safer on a '41. IMHO, a '35 should be bored as little as possible to get round...many have been bored 1/8 but that is a gamble with mediocre-to-bad odds. Call it Russian Roulette with three rounds. Better than Russian roulette with a 1911 Colt, though.

 

[JM 35 Sedan]

So, If a 1935 221 engine is bored out to .040, is it a 239 Cu. In.?

No. A 0.040" over bore on a 3.0625 original bore = 3.1025" bore. If you keep the stroke at at 3.75" (stock) you will only have ~ 227 CI. To get to ~ 239 CI with 3.1025" bore you would need to go to 4.00" stroke (if my math is correct).

 

[Gary-UK]

Just dragging this back up due to a search I just did.

I am working on a '41 engine at the moment, it was fitted new (probably military surplus) in the late seventies to a car I just acquired that only covered about 1000 miles on the new engine before it was parked, so is essentially still factory new. It has the raised pad for the intake and F7-41 cast in the bell housing. It is 221 with the tin can sleeves, I know I can pull the sleeves and clean up for std 239ci as I have done that before on another wartime engine but my intention with this engine is to just fit new valve springs, lap the valves and run it. It has steel pistons though? Is this normal for '41? Or where ford USA just sending us any old stuff on the ww2 lend lease agreement?!

Also it has an aluminium intake with a C11 prefix part number, it has an oval opening in it under the generator, what's this for??
Thanks

 

[Barlea]

The opening is for an oil filler tube with a flared out top like a funnel, the cap is like a gas cap, Ford Canada military and post-war. ..B.

 

[Ol' Ron]

I've bored many of these blocks to 3 5/16.Theb ones with thin sleves
One good reason for the small bore 59 series engines was Ford had a bunch of small pistons

 

[Gary-UK]

Thanks Ron, have you seen steel pistons as late as '41? I know they used them in the 21 stud engines.?

 

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Thanks Ron, have you seen steel pistons as late as '41? I know they used them in the 21 stud engines.?[/QUOT I have seen steel or cast iron pistons in a an original 39 merc 24 stud. It also had the steel tin can sleeves. I didn't build the engine but I heard after it was done that the shop that built it started to bore those steel sleeves and instead of chips dropping on the floor it was coming out like a long string. They wound up honing the sleeves.030 with a CK-10 Sunnen automatic cyl. hone. They also installed aluminum pistons witch was alot heavier than the steel ones and the the engine had a vibration, they had to strip the engine and have it all balanced, they had to take alot out of the crank to balance it .. Walt

 

[Kube]

I don't go along wiyh the war effort bit simply because the war didn't start till Dec. 41
most all 41 engs. had already been made by then,think about it

Buy it.
Many large manufacturing companies including Ford were well underway designing and producing items for the war effort long before the USA became "officially" involved.
The government was working for at minimum since 1938 with companies as well as planning on an eventual involvement.

 

[Kube]

True, but wasn't it pretty much a foregone conclusion that America would be in the war long before Pearl Harbor happened? Also, a bunch of war materials were already being sent to the Allies before we were involved. It's not like we decided it was time to start making preparations in Dec 1941. The writing was on the wall long before then.

Very true and very correct.

 

[Fe26]

Walt you need to write a book. I just love to read your posts!!!

Yep! Books are are very good idea. The EFV8CA is looking for someone to write a book on Flathead engines. I wonder if they have found a sucker willing to devote time and money toward the project only to have the club cancel the project on them. I wonder who would sign up for that kind of treatment?

BTW has anyone heard what the current situation is with Lawson and Jerrys book on the '35-36' Pickup truck?

In December last year I wrote a letter to the EFV8CA supporting the continuation of the book. Over eight pages of considered writing, I reasoned and put forward arguments and suggestions as to why this book (and others) should be published.

I have stopped holding my breath while waiting for a reply. The clubs rudeness in not even acknowledging receipt of my letter, I fear dosen't auger well for Lawson and Jerry. I have become concerned we have a BOD's not only rude in character but willing to make and abide by foolish and ignorant decisions. What hope can the membership have when a BOD's behaves in such a shabby way?

Sorry to hijack your post Shadetree, I saw an opening and rushed in...

 

[JWL]

It might be time to get real with our expectations for the power increase to be seen with an additional 18 cu. in. for the otherwise stock engine. Probably something on the order of 7 HP. Most drivers would not recognize the difference unless they were able to switch back and forth in rapid comparisons. Of course, going from a worn old engine to a fresh new engine with good ring and valve sealing would be a much bigger step up.

 

[Cecil/WV]

JWL, This has been my experience.

 

[Lincoln]

Have not seen anyone mention about the difference in the engine radius rods, and where they are mounted. Recently I looked at a locally owned original 1941 Ford Standard with the V-8, and one thing that caught my eye was that the radius rods were bolted to the front of the block (instead of the rear) with short rods that mounted to frame's X-member near to where it ties in to the frame's side members. Could this be one of the differences?
LINCOLN.