Some final questions on removing engine from 1956 Tbird

[zuburg]

I'm just about ready to pull the engine and Fordomatic as a unit. Last things I have to do is remove the last two bolts on the small cross member and hopefully remove it, remove the speedometer cable, and remove the air duct assembly from the Fordomatic (I'm not sure which bolts or how many to remove to remove the air duct, so I guess I'll just start removing some until it comes off), and remove the steady rest brackets. Then I can lower the front end and remove the radiator.

A question on the front engine mount: I removed the large bolt and bottom insulator from the mount. It appears that a pipe or tube goes through the mount plate. Is that tube part of the bracket above the mount plate? or just part of the mount plate? It looked like the engine would have to be raised in order to clear the mount plate? Or is the engine just sitting on the mount and can be moved a little forward prior to raising?

 

[zuburg]

I forgot one other question. I have taken a picture of the top of the intake manifold. Can anyone suggest where I should bolt the chains on the lift to remove the engine? I have identified some bolt locations with yellow to ask if those would work. The circles are on the front of the intake, the squares are on the back where the carburetor linkage bracket attached. There are similar bolts on the opposite side where the coil is bolted. I bought a universal lift plate to bolt on where the carburetor was, but it wasn't that universal and didn't fit. If you think the lift plate is the way to go, I just thought I could go back and get it, and drill some holes where I need them.

 

[dmsfrr]

There is a 6 to 8-ish inch wide bracket with 2 bolts on the bottom mount for the tail-shaft of the transmission, remove the bolts & bracket and the trans will just rest there on the rubber mount on the cross member, the cross member can stay in place.
Disconnect the shifter linkage. Just unclip each end of the main rod, so the adjustment doesn't change.

The sheet-metal air duct on the drivers side of the bell housing isn't a large piece and has 4 bolts to the bell housing, one in each corner.
Front motor mount... you can also remove the 2 smaller bolts on either side of the large one, preferably when the front end isn't up in the air.
If you haven't already you can remove the exhaust manifolds just to save weight on the engine hoist. Remove the water pump too, you may need the room to avoid hitting bodywork on the nose panel.
I drained the trans so it wouldn't dump fluid out the tail end and wrapped the tail with a plastic bag & duct tape anyway.

To lift the engine & trans I used an adjustable device that bolts on in place of the carburetor and has a large center bolt that allows tilting / leveling the engine as it comes out. I was concerned about the small dia. of the carb studs but the lift plate came with grade 8 bolts to use instead and they worked fine.
As you lift the engine alternate between raising and moving the engine fwd (in relation to the car) a little at a time, it's a snug fit.
To avoid tugging the hoist away from the car and having all that weight (600+) swinging as the engine is pretty high in the air I placed the hoist & car as far forward in the garage as I could and moved the car backward a bit at a time (using 2x4's blocking a tire) as the engine came out.

I wouldn't be inclined to use the bolt holes in the yellow squares, the casting isn't very big there and the weight might snap something, esp the taller one.
Some engine lift chain kits come with a flat bar on the ends that could bolt on in place of two of the four 'egg cup' intake manifold washers closest to the carb.

The last photo is how I moved the engine after the intake manifold was off, because I didn't want to hit the valves/valve springs or nick any sealing surfaces with a chain or metal bracket.

(helpful '57 Bird owner neighbor and his grandson)

 

[miker98038]

Zuburg, dmsfrr brings back some old memories. He's right on.

My leveling device doesn't have a carb plate, just chain attachments. I use it without the intake on, and pick up the front and rear manifold bolts. Big thick washers, all down tight.

If you've got room,rolling the car is the right way, like he says. Friends help a lot.

 

[zuburg]

Nice job on removing your engine. It gives me hope.

"There is a 6 to 8-ish inch wide bracket with 2 bolts on the bottom mount for the tail-shaft of the transmission, remove the bolts & bracket and the trans will just rest there on the cross member."
Do you mean I don't have to remove any of the bolts on the cross member? Just remove the two bolts and bracket attached to the ******?

Disconnect the shifter linkage. Done.
The air duct on the drivers side of the bell housing isn't a large piece and has 4 bolts to the bell housing, one in each corner. I'm so happy to finally hear this, sounds easy. I'll do that tomorrow.
Front motor mount... you can also remove the 2 smaller bolts on either side of the large one, preferably when the front end isn't up in the air. OK, will do that after I lower the front end.
If you haven't already you can also remove the exhaust manifolds just to save weight on the engine hoist. I did this today as I couldn't drop the exhaust pipes off the studs on the manifolds. I also discovered the end of one flange was broken off one of the manifolds. It broke clean and is all there so hope I can get it welded back on.
You can remove the water pump too, you may need the room to avoid hitting bodywork on the nose panel. Good idea.
To remove the engine & trans I used an adjustable device that bolts on in place of the carburetor and has an adjustment bolt that allows tilting / leveling the engine as it comes out. I was concerned about the small dia. of the carb studs but the hoist plate came with grade 8 bolts and they worked fine. I bought a universal lift plate to bolt on where the carb was and I was a little concerned about the small studs. So did you remove the studs and replace with the grade 8 bolts?
As you lift the engine alternate between raising and moving the engine fwd (in relation to the car) a little at a time, it's a snug fit. I do have a tilting device on the hoist to help angle the engine out.
I like your idea about leaving the hoist in one place and moving the car. I will have to measure and see if I have room.

Thanks for all your help,

 

[zuburg]

Thanks, I think I will go that route and remove the intake and use the intake bolts. My leveling device sounds like yours.

 

[dmsfrr]

comments in red below

Nice job on removing your engine. It gives me hope. I hope it goes back in as easily.

"There is a 6 to 8-ish inch wide bracket with 2 bolts on the bottom mount for the tail-shaft of the transmission, remove the bolts & bracket and the trans will just rest there on the cross member."
Do you mean I don't have to remove any of the bolts on the cross member? Just remove the two bolts and bracket attached to the ******? That's correct. (and the driveshaft)

Disconnect the shifter linkage. Done. The neutral safety switch is down there too, IIRC it mounts to the shifter (?, it's been a couple years).
The air duct on the drivers side of the bell housing isn't a large piece and has 4 bolts to the bell housing, one in each corner. I'm so happy to finally hear this, sounds easy. I'll do that tomorrow.
Front motor mount... you can also remove the 2 smaller bolts on either side of the large one, preferably when the front end isn't up in the air. OK, will do that after I lower the front end.
If you haven't already you can also remove the exhaust manifolds just to save weight on the engine hoist. I did this today as I couldn't drop the exhaust pipes off the studs on the manifolds. I also discovered the end of one flange was broken off one of the manifolds. It broke clean and is all there so hope I can get it welded back on. Some welding shops won't want to weld cast iron, those that do seem to charge more for the work.

You can remove the water pump too, you may need the room to avoid hitting bodywork on the nose panel. Good idea.
To remove the engine & trans I used an adjustable device that bolts on in place of the carburetor and has an adjustment bolt that allows tilting / leveling the engine as it comes out. I was concerned about the small dia. of the carb studs but the hoist plate came with grade 8 bolts and they worked fine. I bought a universal lift plate to bolt on where the carb was and I was a little concerned about the small studs. So did you remove the studs and replace with the grade 8 bolts? Yes I did.
As you lift the engine alternate between raising and moving the engine fwd (in relation to the car) a little at a time, it's a snug fit. I do have a tilting device on the hoist to help angle the engine out.
I like your idea about leaving the hoist in one place and moving the car. I will have to measure and see if I have room. Unless it's really cold or stormy there you can roll the car partway out the open garage door til the engine is out and then push the car back in.

Thanks for all your help,

 

[zuburg]

I'm just looking at your picture of the air duct assembly and not at my car right now, so I can't remember exactly how mine looks. Mine might be slightly different if it is a 1954 FOM. But looking at your picture, how does it come off if the ****** is still attached to the engine in the car? Isn't part of the ****** coming through the large hole in the middle? I was thinking part of it would come off just on the driver's side? I don't remember seeing the thinner black metal piece attached on the left of your picture, but I will check tomorrow.

 

[dmsfrr]

I'm just looking at your picture of the air duct assembly and not at my car right now, so I can't remember exactly how mine looks. Mine might be slightly different if it is a 1954 FOM. But looking at your picture, how does it come off if the ****** is still attached to the engine in the car? Isn't part of the ****** coming through the large hole in the middle? I was thinking part of it would come off just on the driver's side? I don't remember seeing the thinner black metal piece attached on the left of your picture, but I will check tomorrow.

Sight unseen I'll guess your transmission is the correct one for the car. T-Birds use a slightly smaller & shorter transmission than the full sized '55/'57 Fords. But, I've never seen a '54 FOM so I'm shooting in the dark here.

Yes, the black sheet-metal vent piece on the lower left is about the only large part that can come off, to give yourself more room when pulling it all out.
Just because I could, I also removed the transmission fill tube so it wouldn't accidentally get bent.

 

[TNDoug]

I just removed/re-installed a 312 V8 and transmission from a '56 TBird. If you need further help you can PM me and I'll help anyway that I can. I used an engine leveler and I'm glad I did. I set it up on each corner of the intake manifold. Watch the chain near the distributor. You'll have to raise the front of the engine way up in order to clear the radiator support. The engine/transmission is heavy so be prepared. I went through the transmission and replaced seals and o-rings. Keep us posted on your project.

 

[zuburg]

I thought my Fordomatic looked different than yours. I'm guessing it is a 1954 Fordomatic that was mated to the 239 engine, but since you say the birds have a different size, maybe not. I'm including some pictures that show the air duct. I only have one on the passenger side, and it looks to me like it will clear OK.

I was able to get all 6 bolts out of the cross member, but it seems to still be solid between the X frame. I hit it pretty hard with a hammer to try and shake it loose, but with no luck. If I could have gotten that cross member off, it would have been easy to get to the speedometer cable. I was finally able to get my hand up there and remove the bolt on the speedometer cable (lost the little pressure thing the bolt held down, hope to find it after I pull the engine/******). I worked on getting the cable out several times, getting my hand stuck up there one time. I was about to give up, and then went back for one more time and finally got that sucker out of there. I also removed the two bolts and bracket that were attached to the bottom of the transmission right next to the cross member.

Last, I removed what I thought were all the bolts on the intake manifold, 4 on each side and two long ones on the front middle part of the intake. It is still stuck solid, are there more bolts I didn't see? If not, suggestion on how to break the seal to get it off without damaging anything?

After this, assuming I can pull the engine/****** without removing the small cross member, and the air duct assembly, I think I'm ready to go.

I sure appreciate all the suggestions and help.

 

[dmsfrr]

Is that a blank cover on the drivers side of the bell housing?
'The rear trans mount cross member won't come out.' Doesn't it have half the weight of the engine & trans currently resting on it?

Intake manifold, yes, 5 bolts on each side. Try to lift one side at a time to get it started, but don't pry on the small ears at the outside corners, just in case.

 

[bobss396]

I bought a Harbor Freight leveler on sale for about $27.. great investment. I can pop an engine in and out almost by myself with that. I just put the drive train back in my '59 with the radiator support in place.

Dropped it in on a steep angle, started to level it out as it moved back in the bay. Bolted it to the front and back of my aluminum heads using nylon blocks as cushions.

 

[y'sguy]

I thought my Fordomatic looked different than yours. I'm guessing it is a 1954 Fordomatic that was mated to the 239 engine, but since you say the birds have a different size, maybe not. I'm including some pictures that show the air duct. I only have one on the passenger side, and it looks to me like it will clear OK.

I was able to get all 6 bolts out of the cross member, but it seems to still be solid between the X frame. I hit it pretty hard with a hammer to try and shake it loose, but with no luck. If I could have gotten that cross member off, it would have been easy to get to the speedometer cable. I was finally able to get my hand up there and remove the bolt on the speedometer cable (lost the little pressure thing the bolt held down, hope to find it after I pull the engine/******). I worked on getting the cable out several times, getting my hand stuck up there one time. I was about to give up, and then went back for one more time and finally got that sucker out of there. I also removed the two bolts and bracket that were attached to the bottom of the transmission right next to the cross member.

Last, I removed what I thought were all the bolts on the intake manifold, 4 on each side and two long ones on the front middle part of the intake. It is still stuck solid, are there more bolts I didn't see? If not, suggestion on how to break the seal to get it off without damaging anything?

After this, assuming I can pull the engine/****** without removing the small cross member, and the air duct assembly, I think I'm ready to go.

I sure appreciate all the suggestions and help.

After looking at your photos I can see that the sheetmetal air duct has been removed from the trans. The course screen that goes in between is still there.

 

[zuburg]

Ah, thanks for the comment on the missing sheetmetal air duct. I'll try to find one to put on it when I have the transmission rebuilt.

Now for some good news. Thanks to many of you on these forums, the engine and ****** are now out of the car. I borrowed an engine hoist from a friend, and another friend helped me to pull the engine. The biggest problem we ran into was the borrowed winch (1 ton) was not big enough to do the job. Luckily the guy helping me had a 2 ton hoist at home, so we drove over there to get his hoist and it was a life saver (much longer boom).

Now for my next question. Now that I have the transmission out, I could find the markings and tag information on the Fordomatic. The bad news is I could not find my numbers in the various Fordomatic identification charts. Can anyone identify this ****** with the following information?
Stamp on Housing: PMB - 7976 - A (also, to the left and slightly higer than these numbers was W2)
Information on oval tag: PAB - 7003 - C2 on the left side of the oval, and 50 - 44072 on the right side of the oval
It also said Dearborn Michigan on the tag

Some pictures included

 

[Hoosier Hurricane]

PMB is listed for '55 Ford, Merc, and T-Bird. Probably original to your car. John

 

[zuburg]

Well we were able to remove the engine and Fordomatic from the 56 Tbird without removing the small cross member. With the engine out, I tried to remove the cross member by hitting it with a hammer a 2x4 block, but could not get it out. I know it will be much easier to attach the speedometer cable with the cross member out. Any ideas how to remove it? I'm not sure what is holding it in. It doesn't seem rusted.

If it turns out I have to leave it in, I have a question about putting the bolts back in. There is a total of 8 bolt holes in the cross member. The two offset holes in the middle hold the transmission mount. The two holes in the "flanges" on each end bolt to the frame. The last two holes are in the top of the cross member near each end. I have the bolts and nuts, but can't remember what they bolt to other than the cross member. Have I forgotten something, or do these two bolts really not do anything?

thanks,

 

[Dominic Hide]

Pretty sure that there are three fasteners at each end of the cross member, front, rear and top. That would explain the difficulty removing it.
Replacing the cable with the cross member in place really is not that difficult, but with it in or out be sure to use some auto trans assembly grease (or petroleum jelly) to hold the speedo gear in place on installation. You don't want to pull the transmission to recover the gear if it falls into the extension housing. Of course you could attach the cable to the transmission before you replace it in the car and thread the speedometer end into the car during installation.

 

[dmsfrr]

Please excuse the dust. The cleaning lady doesn't come in til Friday.
The 2 outer holes in the top of the cross member (yellow circles) didn't/don't have anything in them as far as I know.

Yes there are 3 bolts (not 2) in each end of the cross member to the frame (2nd photo) and 2 for the transmission mount, a total of 8 bolts.
.

 

[zuburg]

Thanks. What messed me up was I had bolts and nuts in the holes you circled, but after looking at it later couldn't remember why. I will leave them out this time and go back to look for the last two bolts I missed.