soldering

MrTube

MrTube

Well-known member
A while back I had to do some soldering on our A's radiator and a few members had recommend using RubyFluid flux.

I cannot remember who specifically recommended it, but I was wondering if this flux is also good for potable copper water pipes in plumbing?

I am getting ready to do quite a bit of sweating and the Rubyfluid worked great on the radiator. I just cannot find any information about Rubyfluid online.
 
Mr. Tube,

I have used it for decades on plumbing work. Have also used Dutton's and Kester paste fluxes.

If you are working on existing sweated work that has lead-bearing solder, suggest you continue to use the same - 60/40 or 50/50.

Trying to use that damned new lead-free solder in work with lead-alloy joints nearby is maddening - for the lead-free stuff, you have to get the joint so hot that the older solder in adjacent joints often runs-out.

Don't want to start a flame war, just citing my personal experience with the stuff. I've been sweating copper plumbing for nearly thirty years, and never had trouble with the job until I tried that lead-free crap. (Rant over.)

RubyFluid is good stuff... I get mine from my local "Do it Best" Mom& Pop hardware store ( which is actually 20 miles away in Wilkes-Barre ).

Good luck !

SC Frank
 
It's a big no-no to use solder containing lead now days .Soldering with lead free is not a big deal .There are heavy fines if you get caught and they can tell if you are using solder with lead in it,it's a simple test ..I wouldn't do it .Jmo.
 
I continue to use solder with lead in it for doing repairs on radiators.

I do not think this will be a problem as I do not plan to drink my radiator water.

Chris
 
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You know, folks are all jazzed-up about lead leaching from solder joints in older plumbing, but no one seems concerned that there's no Federal ceiling on how much chlorine and other chemicals may be added at the purification plant for municipal water supplies....
 
Special Coupe Frank said:
You know, folks are all jazzed-up about lead leaching from solder joints in older plumbing, but no one seems concerned that there's no Federal ceiling on how much chlorine and other chemicals may be added at the purification plant for municipal water supplies....
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Thats because people get jazzed up about whatever the media picks to be the topic at the time.

I'm also installing a decent house filter to remove as much chlorine as I can. Though I will admit I'm doing this as much for my boiler as I am me :D


I am pretty certain there are federal regulations on how much chlorine can be used. I am not positive though.
 
Good Point! Having grown up in the "lead solder" era, I have never seen a joint that was eaten out from continous exposure to water of all types. I've owned and rented several houses and repaired water lines in most of them. In Ocean co. NJ, The well water was so acidic in one house I owned that it used to eat up the valve seats, especially on the hot water side. But never any loss of the lead solder in the joints. I saw HW lines with pinholes eroded in the old copper but all the lead was still in the joint. You'd think that it would be the first to go. IMHO The lead in the water scare was just a way for the Govt to get us to spend more and recieve less.
Terry




Special Coupe Frank said:
You know, folks are all jazzed-up about lead leaching from solder joints in older plumbing, but no one seems concerned that there's no Federal ceiling on how much chlorine and other chemicals may be added at the purification plant for municipal water supplies....
Click to expand...
 
I have been down this road of lead in water several times. I grew up in a small town where most of us drank water that came from wells 4 and 5 hundred feet away through lead pipe. Many of us went on to get advanced degrees in college. It seems that if a kid eats lead paint and a considerable amount of it, then there is trouble. In the old days we used to breath lead from gas in cars and lawnmowers etc. Overkill to satisfy a few.
 
MrTube said:
Thats because people get jazzed up about whatever the media picks to be the topic at the time.

I'm also installing a decent house filter to remove as much chlorine as I can. Though I will admit I'm doing this as much for my boiler as I am me :D


I am pretty certain there are federal regulations on how much chlorine can be used. I am not positive though.
Click to expand...



Our 1917 house came with a Culligan salt-tank filter and UV anti-bacterial unit, plus two filter tanks all installed in the early 1970's, after a big Giardiasys event in the municpal supply...


Let me soften my original reponse to your question: if you are going with a brand-new installation of sweated-copper pipe, use the lead-free solder.

If you are working on an older copper installation, with lead-alloy solder joints, it will be easier to do repairs using lead-alloy solder for reasons I mentioned in my original reply.

Mom & Dad's 1950 ranch house is on a well, and plumbed with sweated copper... the well-water is acidic, and the copper erodes and gives-out after a number of years... have spent lots of time in the crawl-space replacing rotten pipes. Can't convince them that a water softener would be a good thing...:confused:

SC Frank
 
MrTube said:
Frank, Perhaps PEX would hold up better in your mom and dads house?
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Mom brought that up the other year... I'm still a little doubtful of its durability...

I like things to prove themselves in service for 40 or 50 years before I invest in the technology... :rolleyes: ;)

( Kind of like Monitor-Tops and Model As.... )
 
Lead free solder is no harder to solder with than the old 50/50 0r 95/5 solder If you prepare the pipe right and use the correct flux ,anyone can do it .Ever hear of capillary action ?It plays a big part in soldering .The new lead free solder is some good stuff.I have been a Master Plumber for 45 years and hard to convince when it comes to changing the ways some things are done .JMHO.
 
joe plumber said:
Lead free solder is no harder to solder with than the old 50/50 0r 95/5 solder If you prepare the pipe right and use the correct flux ,anyone can do it .Ever hear of capillary action ?It plays a big part in soldering .The new lead free solder is some good stuff.I have been a Master Plumber for 45 years and hard to convince when it comes to changing the ways some things are done .JMHO.
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Joe,

I will defer to your experience as a bread & butter plumber.

But, my own experience has been less than stellar with lead-free solder.

And I've had difficulties with it in brand-new pipe & fittings, as well as with existing work. Sometimes it's gone fine, other times it's been a nightmare- joint is hot, flux fizzes and sputters LF solder melts, but balls-up and falls-off instead of wicking-into the joint. :mad:

I don't do plumbing for other people, so I'll take my chances with lead-alloy stuff.

I have heard-of and do understand the principles of capillary action, and have successfully performed dozens of sweated joints using lead-alloy solder in the past. Never had trouble until I tried using the lead-free stuff.

Perhaps someday, I will take time to perfect my lead-free skills... but usually, I'm in a "no-water situation" and need to "git'er done" and get the water back on ASAP.

:confused:
 
New or old the pipe and fitting need to be sanded and cleaned. Cleanliness is more important than the type of solder.

This is also true in electronics which is where I make my bread and butter ;).
 
MrTube said:
New or old the pipe and fitting need to be sanded and cleaned. Cleanliness is more important than the type of solder.

This is also true in electronics which is where I make my bread and butter ;).
Click to expand...


Yup. I know that too.

Got all the fitting brushes and emery cloth, etc.

And had my fair share of trying to solder "Dirty" electrical stuff in my younger days... I learned that the joints have to be clean.

Fortunately, I don't have to do much plumbing work these days.
 
When solder doesn't take could be from water in the pipe ,too much heat applied to the joint causing it to become burnt,old flux ,pipe and fitting not cleaned or both not fluxed,wrong type of solder used .I have run across some poor quality of pipe and fittings where nothing ,short of silver soldering would work .I use Nokorode flux and StaBrite solder .Just soldered 35 2" joints today and had no problems .The old 95/5 lead solder required more heat than the lead free solder .JMHO. :cool:
 
The following is a true lead pipe story. My father apprenticed as a plumber in 1913 during the lead water pipe days. He told me that apprentices were required to go get beer for the journeymen at lunch time. They got the beer in lead drum traps! Lead drum traps are about quart-sized containers used in the drain under bath tubs. In the 1940 era plumbers still used heated lead and solder pots. He lived to be 93, still with sharp mind.
 
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