Soak Banjo Gaskets

Curt Campbell

Curt Campbell

Senior Member
I have been advised to soak the new banjo gaskets in oil or something prior to final installation. Is thst true? I am ready to put it all together. Didnt see anythi g in Andrews book about that. Using the indianhead shellac sealer doesnt sound right tk me?

How about that Tom Endy or HL??? OR anyone else?
 
i do not soak them and use the indian head shellack liberally on the gaskets and bolts.. never had a leak, but did have leaks when i did not go that route.. just my experience..
we also only use the "best gasket comp"
""apply the sealer after all is set up for final assy""
 
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I just finished the assembly of differential and did not soak gaskets or use gasket sealer, reason is you have to take it apart if pre-load needs adjusting...many times...will see if I get any leaks?? Was not hard to align the gaskets.....Dick
 
IMO the reason to soak a paper gasket is to get it to expand enough to line up the bolt holes. A lot of old gaskets would shrink over the years. I always just use water.
 
I also soak the gaskets in warm water, but only if they need to be expanded due to old age and shrinkage. Once expanded I pat them dry.

I also use Indian Head sealer on final assembly.
 
Hi Curt,

First, thanks to Mr. Endy for his wonderful article.

1. I look at it this way. In our humid area, water causes rust, & water causes swelling. After water evaporates one has shrunk & thinner paper gaskets that could leak with vibration; plus rusty bolts & rusty mating surfaces at the banjo. Just me. After completion, lube will soak into in-sides of compressed paper gaskets to seal same.

2. Not all gaskets manufacturers make them alike, & it appears gasket diameters are sometimes small ........ to adjust or expand diameter, rather than add water, I use a gasket hole cutter & remove a little gasket material off of the in-side of perimeter bolt holes so each individual gasket goes on very "smoothly" prior to any assembly. Messed up bolt holes scraping on bolt threads makes the gaskets thicker at bolt holes with excess gasket material at bolt holes.

3. I measure each "new" gasket & write "measured" thickness on each with a black pencil -- never rely on manufacturer's reported thickness -- foreigners never make the correct U.S. shoe sizes either.

4. If one "trys" a banjo gasket, it gets compressed; ............... hence, I write a "new" compressed thickness on it with a red pencil so I can re-use compressed gaskets ............. believe it or not, gasket thickness gets a little thinner after being compressed just once -- experience shows that twice compressed gaskets does not make much difference.

5. While not having an extra cluster gear yoke to drill & tap to set pre-load in in-lbs, I made a tool with a threaded 4" diameter PVC pipe plug.

6. Cut (3) half circles in the threaded part to fit over your good yoke, remove very top of square top of PVC plug, insert a 1/8" x 1" wide thick diagonal piece of metal to fit in PVC square opening & place same over yoke, i.e., the (3) axles of the yoke, first without cluster gears as recommended.

7. Cut a 1" deep notch through, (i.e., in both sides), of a length of 1/2" PVC pipe, (with pipe longer than axle housing), to fit on the 1/8" x 1" diagonal metal in the PVC plug.

8. Glue a PVC fitting on the opposite end of the PVC pipe that fits a wrench socket.

9. Then turn the PVC plug with an in-lb torque wrench attached to the PVC socket fitting on the end of the PVC 1/2" pipe.

10. Did everything once where pre-loads were accurate with no guess work.

Hope this helps.
 
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i soak them in the toilet bowl, if its good enough for your dog to drink from, its good enough for gaskets. shrunken v8 gaskets will also work. i lay a small bead of silicone at the inside of the bell where the gasket is. re-tighten the bolts in a week or two.
 
Hi Curt,

1. Something else to possibly expect, (if your banjo was like mine, & as cautioned not to do I think by Mr. Endy), is that some former Gorilla mechanic inserted something similar to a bottle jack inside my banjo to drive out the pinion bearings.

2. The banjo could have been deformed & made oblong once ......... or maybe more times; but anyway, the banjo was slightly oblong.

3. With a slightly disfigured banjo like this, in my humble opinion, you could soak a paper banjo gasket in elephant pee for a month & it still will not fit properly -- if need be, just get out the gasket hole cutter for proper adjustments.

4. Also tried recommended Prussian Blue, grease, etc., etc., for observing marks on the ring gear -- what worked best for me was to mix axle grease with white or yellow "alkyd" paint.

5. A thin coating of this thick paint will mix well with grease & will not dry rapidly, & the very distinguishable gear marks will stand out in contrast exceptionally well.

6. FWIW: If you ever want a much better tasty meal .... just think ...... then try something a little different from that written in the Betty Crocker bland recipes .... always room for improvement.
 
I find it interesting that in Les Andrews book basically advises puttin thr rear end differential back together without much mention of liad...preload...or the other tedious details. By just reading that i would take it apart...clean it...replace bearings/races apu back together with the same gaskets I took apart. I found iy very short snd lacking all the imortant detail.
 
I think a lot of the preloads tend to 'disappear.'

The first rear-end I did had like ZERO preload. Either on the pinon double sided OR the carrier bearings. Once cleaned, that pinion double sided could be SPUN with a single finger around the pinion.

So it may not be all that critical in real life.

Probably much more important in initial setup is consistancy in getting the component locations and your wear pattern correct. And a bearing preload goes a long way towards having that happen.

"Repeatability" the goal.

Meanwhile the worn axles have worn not only in their preload but also in their wear pattern - worn together that is.

Joe K
 
FWIW: Just for an experiment, tested existing preloads & found what Mr. Joe K experienced.

Upon dismantling the rear end, the preload was gone everywhere -- and there was absolutely no prior noise or grinding ...... nothing but very smooth movement everywhere.

Appears this may be the way Timken designed bearings & why they recommend a slight preload prior to bearings wearing in.

The only reason I opened the rear end was to install a 3:27 ring gear in my Town Sedan -- glad I did.
 
Over the years I have read and heard about the suggestion to soak banjo gaskets in water. I never did because it didn't seem to me like a good idea. I was afraid the gasket would tear, and also that it could induce rust to the mating flanges.

I was also concerned that it would create difficulty when adding and subtracting, and shifting gaskets.

For the above reasons I though a better scheme is to use studs in all the banjo holes. I made up ten studs from some threaded stock and use them on each side of the banjo when I install gaskets. This allows the gasket to align to the holes and prevents the gasket from being pulled into the hole. I replace each stud one at a time and replace it with a bolt as I proceed.

I get all my banjo gaskets from Bratton's and have not had a problem with them not fitting. I keep the them between cardboard and keep them in a cabinet inside the house.

On final assembly I coat the gaskets liberally with Indian Head gasket sealer. The sealer will run into the banjo holes and help seal the threads.

Tom Endy
 

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Sorry I posted the wrong photo on the previous post.

Tom Endy
 

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I didn't soak my gaskets, and they worked fine. I also like the stud idea. Running the original bolts in and out a half dozen times with torquing can't be doing them any favors. Next time I'll use studs and nuts for the set up and save the bolts for the final assembly.
 
Great Lakes Greg said:
I didn't soak my gaskets, and they worked fine. I also like the stud idea. Running the original bolts in and out a half dozen times with torquing can't be doing them any favors. Next time I'll use studs and nuts for the set up and save the bolts for the final assembly.
Click to expand...


In order to set pre-loads and back lash you will still have to run the bolts in and torque them each time you try a different gasket combination. The studs are only used to hold the gasket(s) in place while you run the bolts in.

Tom Endy
 
I got my differential assembled this afternoon. Things seemed to work out well. I have one axle tube bolt hole strip out from the continual out and it. I will fix that when the Indianhead Shellac I used dries some. The bscklash and other settings seem ok. I am going to make a way to lift the entire assembly with my engine lift and paint when totally clean....tomorrow. will post pic. Am really impresed with the coatings I am using. Did not soak gasket.....process was a pain in the *** but is worth it.

Thank you all again.
 
Curt Campbell said:
I got my differential assembled this afternoon. Things seemed to work out well. I have one axle tube bolt hole strip out from the continual out and it. I will fix that when the Indianhead Shellac I used dries some. The bscklash and other settings seem ok. I am going to make a way to lift the entire assembly with my engine lift and paint when totally clean....tomorrow. will post pic. Am really impresed with the coatings I am using. Did not soak gasket.....process was a pain in the *** but is worth it.

Thank you all again.
Click to expand...


I have acquired a stable of Model A banjos over the years. I pick them up as swap meets if they are cheap and the double race is in place. If the race is missing I pass on it because it is likely spun and the race fell out.

I remove the double race, degrease, bead blast, and paint. I check all the threads and run a gun barrel cleaner on a drill motor through the threads. I file the burrs off the flanges, put them in a plastic bag and mark them 29\30 or 30\31. I do not pick up any of the 28 because they do not have torque tube flange gussets and most are cracked at the two mounting holes on the axle housing flange next to the torque tube flange. I do have a coupe 28 spares if someone insists.

When a job comes in I exchange the banjo for one I have ready to go. The first time I run a bolt into a bolt hole I do it by hand very carefully with a 3\8" socket wrench to make sure it goes in easy and the bolt hole threads are good. The bolts I use have been previously inspected, bead blasted, and wire wheeled and are in a container. The ones I removed from the job go into a container of lacquer thinner to be attended to later. I use only original Henry bolts, and discard any repos.

If I encounter a bolt hole that is molested I violate the Model A commandment that says thou shall never run a tap through a banjo bolt hole because they are special. It is either that or scrap out the banjo. I have never had a problem doing this. if a banjo bolt hole is completely stripped out it can be repaired with a helix-coil as long as the bolt hole is near the top of the banjo.

I learned early on that care must be taken when bolting axle housings to banjos. The flanges of both should be free of burrs and the bolts and the threaded holes must be clean and in good condition. Another trick I learned is to obtain a battery operated 3\8 socket wrench and use it each time you run in and remove the 20 banjo bolts. It speeds the process up. Use a torque wrench set at 35 ft. lbs. for the final tightening each time.

The key word in rebuilding a rear axle\differential assembly after cleanliness is "patience".

Tom Endy
 
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