Snyder's Head Problem

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meskhov

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Just purchased a new 5,5 to 1 head and just found out that when I installed it found out it is thicker than the original by about a 1/16". I called Tom at Snyder's and he told me they had a batch that the tickness was off and would be corrected with the new batch. The top of the studs are about 3 threads shy of being flush with the top of the nut. The goseneck is worse only 1/2 of the nut catches the stud and this is with a new Snyder's outlet! This is totally unacceptable for paying this amount of money for a new part that is supposed to fit perfect. They tried telling me to back off te studs a few turns but come on really? I'm no dummy when it comes to mechanial problems as I've restored a dozen cars over the years and never had the problems of repro parts as I've had with A and T parts. I'm going to mill down the tops of the bosses to brind the dimension equal to an original head so I'll have the 1 thread exposed.
Hate to vent but tis is the 3rd head in the last year that has this problem, so much for the new batch, huh?
 
With the problems that Snyder's has been having with the heads 6 to 1 and the 5.5 to 1, makes me wish that, Larry Brumfield was still making his heads.
 
Yes, I never had any problems with Larry's heads and I must have used a good half a dozen.
Where are ya Larry we need you making those great heads again!
 
Head Problem ?? Just back off the studs like Don told you . I have installed three 5.5 and one 6.1 , No problems except one had the wrong gasket with it . Must use a B gasket . I installed a stock 28 head with the FORD script and had to back off some on the studs. Be careful cutting down the bosses as they might be a little thin on the water jacket at that point . What are the problems with the 6.1 head? Bubby Sharp in KY
 
Why not use the 3 &3/4 inch length ignition studs they may stick up only slightly more above the nut than stock. This would really be better than backing out the 3&1/2 inch stock length stud. The water neck studs would still be a problem. If you milled 1/16 off the bottom of the head it would raise the compression to 5.9 and solve the stud length problem. There was a discussion about using grade five studs here not too long ago. I know that the grade 5 studs and 55 ft.lb. torque will work good with 5.9 compression heads. I've been running a brumfield 5.9 on my speedster for 13 years with grade 5 studs. The same on my daughters coupe for 15 years. You just end up having to retorque the grade five studs more before they will hold the torque. I used the grade 8 studs on my roadster and torqued them to 65 ft.lb. I haven't had a problem but I just feel now that 65 FT.LBS is way more strain on the 81 year old threads in the block.
 
Purdy, yes you can use the longer ignition stud but what about the outlet? There are no offerings for a longer stud.
Again, I don't mind a thicker casting but if that is the case offer longer bolts to compensate. The regular customer might not care about how many threads show but for judging guys it must be correct.
Milling the bottom casues problems with pistons hitting the head as there is minimal clearance there already. I ran Brumfield heads with grade 8 suds at 60 lbs and never had any problems with a stock Fel-Pro 7013-C
Gasket. The studs can take more but not the 70+ year old blocks.
 
Purdy , Do the math and buying the longer studs $ 33 plus the nuts $ 3.45 plus the water neck studs $ 2.95 would total $39.40 . Compared to $ 15.75 for grade 5 set . I considered doing what you suggested but didn't due to cost and delay .
 
meskhov said:
Just purchased a new 5,5 to 1 head and just found out that when I installed it found out it is thicker than the original by about a 1/16". I called Tom at Snyder's and he told me they had a batch that the tickness was off and would be corrected with the new batch. The top of the studs are about 3 threads shy of being flush with the top of the nut. The goseneck is worse only 1/2 of the nut catches the stud and this is with a new Snyder's outlet! This is totally unacceptable for paying this amount of money for a new part that is supposed to fit perfect. They tried telling me to back off te studs a few turns but come on really? I'm no dummy when it comes to mechanial problems as I've restored a dozen cars over the years and never had the problems of repro parts as I've had with A and T parts. I'm going to mill down the tops of the bosses to brind the dimension equal to an original head so I'll have the 1 thread exposed.
Hate to vent but tis is the 3rd head in the last year that has this problem, so much for the new batch, huh?
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You must be a glutton for punishment. I have bought 25 of these heads in the past 4 months and have not had any problems like this. I simply add .060 to the recommended height of the stud. This is probably 1/2 of one thread. BTW, I do engines for judging and have never lost a point for thread length.
 
Bubby Sharp in KY said:
Purdy , Do the math and buying the longer studs $ 33 plus the nuts $ 3.45 plus the water neck studs $ 2.95 would total $39.40 . Compared to $ 15.75 for grade 5 set . I considered doing what you suggested but didn't due to cost and delay .
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Bubba, I'm looking in the Snyders catalog. My catalog is a 2011. I haven't got the 2012 yet. The 3&3/4 inch studs that I am refering to are grade 5 . These studs are listed at $1.75 each times 12 equals $21.00 plus $2.50 for the pair of outlet studs equals $23.50 plus $3.45 for the grade 5 head nut set equals $26.95 That is only $11.00 more than the standard length grade 5 stud and nut set that is 1/16 inch too short or $13.00 less than the $39.95 chrome moly stud and nut set that is also too short. It just seems that only $11.00 is not too much to pay for studs that would have full benefit of all of the block threads and still protrude through the nut. There will still be a problem with the too short water neck studs. I haven't installed one of the new Snyder heads and I'm not saying that the other methods won't work. I would just rather use the longer studs.
 
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Jamie86 said:
With the problems that Snyder's has been having with the heads 6 to 1 and the 5.5 to 1, makes me wish that, Larry Brumfield was still making his heads.
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With all due respect, the problem has not been with Snyders, ...it has been with finding US foundaries that can consistantly pour cast iron. Don and I have had several conversation regarding this topic. Based on what he has been receiving, it appears he can get an equal to, -or better product by having them cast off-shore however he is trying to make the Made in the US thing work. The problem is most US foundaries now do not have much experience with cast iron as most of them only do alloy now because that is what most manufacturing has gone to. As far as the 6:1, again there aren't any issues with the heads, ...it is the tooling has gone back to be totally redone so the machining process can be automated in the future.
 
Shame the head is not to size. Try calling ARP 805-339-2200. Their studs are better than grade 8 and are quality products. Tell them the dimensions and length of threads you need. They have then in 1/4 inch increments. They have matching nuts and washers.
 
The guy I talked to at ARP had no clue as to what a Model A Ford is. If you have a part number going in and don't mention "Model A" then you should be OK.
 
Going over grade 8 the next weak link is the block. If you torque the studs to stretch
correctly you will start pulling up the block and cause sealing problems.
They were designed for grade 5 at 50-55lbs. you can get away with grade 8 at
60-65lbs. but still take a chance on pulling up the deck.
I know some have done it and gotten away with it but it won't work for everyone.
 
The studs are one aspect of the thicker head. What about the distributor drive shaft? With a thicker head is it right to assume that the drive shaft is not fully seated?
 
I had the same problem with my Snyder 6.1 head and got the same response fron Snyders. Backing off threads on a high compression head is NOT a good solution and for me was not an option. I bought an End Mill Bit and chucked it in my drill press and with LOTS of measurements dressed the bosses down to original specs.Problem solves.

Brent is right. Any time someone has something, especially a new product, manufactured he and his new customers can expect some degree of trial and error as the bugs are worked out. Ideally the bugs are worked out at the factory, BUT......

I am sure Snyders will correct the problem on the next batch of heads and I still will buy fron Snyders. Ain't nobody mad.
 
How do you all install block studs? It's always been my thought and M O to simply seal them and run em in finger tight. That being the case, what's the issue with 1 turn up? Isn't the idea of a stud to turn in the base as the nut torques? Maybe I'm too anal about that detail, but it works in race motors up to 15:1. Also, if the block is that bad it might be time for some threaded inserts. Not heli-coil, bad idea in some blocks...just sayin?
 
I have purchased and installed a 6:1 head. I did have to back the studs out a little to get the proper stud length above the nut. I don't really have a problem with that. The only issue I had with the heads was the surface finish on the cast. It was really rough with some really ugly areas. I ground some of those areas down but that too changes the appearance also. It seems that the issue is with the head suppliers as was mentioned before. Has anyone else observed this?
Cal
 
theHIGHLANDER said:
How do you all install block studs? It's always been my thought and M O to simply seal them and run em in finger tight. That being the case, what's the issue with 1 turn up?

That may work in Newer engine blocks but not something that has been heat cycled for 80 plus years.

The studs have to be tight in the block to attain the torque they're meant for. Now even more that we're upping the compression ratio albeit 1.5 points say but still compression is going to put more load on the studs and block threads.

We were told the same as everyone else it seems to back off the threads. Well for us doing the work that isn't an option for us as we want the engine to be right when it leaves our shop.

I just did a head it took me about 20 minutes from setup to finish and removed .050" on all of the stud holes plus the water neck pad.

Someone mentioned that it wasn't Snyder's fault ? but who sells the heads?
Harry Truman was famous for saying "The Buck stops here".

Not a big deal for anyone to do the modification as long as you have a milling machine.
Just the idea that we have to modify a new part to fit.

You can see in the picture that the amount removed doesn't alter the head cosmetically.
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