Signal/Brake converter help

If a person gets used to the original way that turn signals were introduced into the motor vehicle world, I just can't see any reason to make something so simple into a nightmare. 4 wires to the back and two to the front. Head lights, running lights (park & tail), and brake lights were a given in all the old systems and all that had to be done was add the turn signal switch into the mix. No relays, special electronic boxes, or any other extra things that could go south. When folks converted the old trucks, they would generally add the post type turn signal lamps to the top of the front fenders so they wouldn't have to change the park lamps over to dual filament type. They put the add on switch on the steering column and wired it into the existing system but only had to add the wires for the front turn signals. They just tapped into the rest of them. If I was building something up, I'd go that route for simplicity.

We had black out lights on most all the ground based vehicles when I was doing the military thing and they were separate systems that were only used when necessary. There only tie in was the capability to lock out the bright light system when they were used so some troopy wouldn't accidentally turn them on during night training exercises or actual wartime operations. The lockout function was part of the big light switch they all had.
 
I think you are making this way more complicated than it is, just get an
after market seven wire switch and be done with it.

Bob
 

Attachments

  • flasherdiagram.jpg
    flasherdiagram.jpg
    21.2 KB · Views: 25
rotorwrench said:
If a person gets used to the original way that turn signals were introduced into the motor vehicle world, I just can't see any reason to make something so simple into a nightmare. 4 wires to the back and two to the front. Head lights, running lights (park & tail), and brake lights were a given in all the old systems and all that had to be done was add the turn signal switch into the mix.
Click to expand...

I don't think it was quite as simple as you are describing it. Before factory turn signals, most vehicles did not have 4 wires to the back; they had one brake light wire and one tail light wire which were split at the back to go to the left and right light.

Most all the early aftermarket switches were three wire (or a variation); but did not include the brake light function.

Most everybody at the time just added extra extra lights front and rear instead of completely rewiring the tail/park/brake light circuit.

Far as I have found, the aftermarket signal switches that included the brake light circuitry, six wire (or a variation), did not appear until signals were an OEM option and the cars were factory wired to suit.

Now-a-days when guys want to add signals to their old cars (with old columns); they are faced with several choices; gypo Chinese switches, heavy duty truck looking switches, high dollar electronic switches, or they can rejuvenate an old period looking aftermarket switch. Many of these old switches, while cool looking, are only a three wire signal switch. This requires some way of incorporating the brake light circuit. Choices seem to be a trailer converter (always seems to be a headache from the related posts), an electronic module ($$$), or a relay circuit set up with either DPDT cube relays or five pin automotive relays (relays are confusing to many).
 
Most cars had right & left tail lights from the factory just prior and after the war when turn signals started to become a regular option. The pickups & trucks are the ones that most often had to have a light assembly added. I had experience doing that more than once. Old 50s & 60s vintage kits show up on flea-pay in NOS condition. Truth be known, some of the modern Asian made stuff might be just as good a quality as some of those old ones were.
 
Grrr...I could have sworn I mentioned more than once that this rig NEVER DID have any intact factory wiring. I've used the converter units before w/o trouble since they were on vehicles with already intact wiring...I just needed them to work properly with single bulb trailers or towing lights.

Guess I'll have to take more pictures and post em to make my point. Unfortunately not enough light left to get good pictures on my phone....and will be back too late tomorrow as well.

The ONLY reason I brought the problem here is I couldn't figure out WHY the signals would NOT blink when I put a relay inline with the converter leads. Wasn't until Rich B's last post on page 1 of this thread that pointed me to the possible cause of my problem. JUST got home about 10 minutes ago so will soon see if what he said is right. I hope so.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING exists of the original wiring of the donor vehicles that made this one. Only the frame//drivetrain and the structure of the firewall were retained. ALL current wiring is brand new...first time in probably close to 60 years it had a (nearly) complete set.

ALL BODY PANELING was builtfrom scratch using angle iron to form the basic framing that 14ga sheet metal was then attached to. At the time when he put it together there was no need to have proper lights. The headlights and blackout tails were all that were put in place...of which only the headlights were functional.

This thing sat for 35 years and would LIKE to be able to take it on the highway now and then. Can't do THAT without LEGAL and working lighting on the arse-end so the only reason a state trooper or the odd Indian Res (since the nearest "big" town is ON one) might pull me over would be to sate simple curiosity. County sheriffs I'm not worried about...

--------

Already using switch since have no place to put the column lever anyhow. Only just got home so will shortly go outside...disconnect the blackout leads going to the small lamps on the front fenders and connect the signals in their place. If it works? GOOD. If not? Then I guess I'm SoL.
 

FINALLY!
NOW THE SIGNALS WORK! THANK YOU Rich B.

Now to put the poor battery I've been shuttling around to test with on the charger. I could hear the ticks of the relay starting to get slower....and slower...

Found it easier to swap bullet connections in the engine bay...had to do sections so I could more easily feed the loom through the front wheel well. Would have been tacky to have the loom sitting on the flat fender so they got fed under the fender and only come up just behind the lights. Now the bullet-style (almost the size of the business portion of a tank round) are wired as signals and work.

As the leads of the new converter are WAAAAY too long I tested the previous converter. It now works properly too.

At barely 6in long and the input leads were long as well but got cut to the length needed. IT has the female end built into its body. This is the one that the wiring harnesses has been made to accommodate anyhow.

-----------

The blackouts are on a separate circuit...no fancy military switch...just a heavy duty 3-position tucked away to switch power between them and the regular ones. All other reference to blackouts was for reference only. The small front lamps were installed when the rig was put together and intended to make them part of the BO circuit...now they will serve as front signals instead.

ADDENDUM:There is no steering column to mount to to allow using one of the signal switches. It's a straight shot up from the steering gear...to a U-joint that raises the angle of the wheel. Otherwise the wheel would be aimed at the driver's gut. It is almost flush-mount to the dash. No place anywhere else on the driver's side to mount the switch either without looking tacky. Plastic ones aren't exactly cheap and GOOD non-plastic switches cost more than I paid for both converters.
Can't put a switch on the passenger side either unless it got mounted to the dash with lever pointed "up"...and that hand can at times be occupied in a hurry if dealing with possible tailgaters...since the original 3-on-a-tree transmission is operated by 2 separate levers now. Do THAT dance wrong and you lock up the transmission and become a road block.
 
Last edited:
I think we were all aware of all you mentioned about your vehicle. If your building something, you generally build it from some other model and you build and wire it to that model. Take it easy on the messengers when they give suggestions. Most of us have a lot of experience and we just reflect that back giving the best advice we know how. I'm sure we all would wish that you have a trouble free and repairable system on there now and in the future. After all, someone else may have to repair it one day and come back asking the same questions.
 
Looking back I suppose I should have mentioned from the start that absolutely everything except the frame, engine, and part of the drivetrain was built from scratch. Would've been more precise anyway to say the least as it would have excluded any previously existing vehicle wiring.

Was just getting frustrated as all hell as it started to feel as if I was being told what amounted to "rip everything out and start over". I understand what was being said though and will keep it in mind. ESPECIALLY since at some point this coming year I have my own plans for a 6-wheeler project. NEW YEARS RESOLUTION I suppose. Have had the notion for a couple years now and unless I can find an intact body to make use of I'll have to use the burnt-out one I DO have and completely rebuild its wiring as well. This one though will use 60s IH Scout parts.

Now if I'd proceeded to connect the front lamps as signals from the start...the idea did occur to me after seeing mention elsewhere that someone used them as signals on their rat rod...then of course I never would have learned that the light converter requires "upstream" connections to help it work right.

Chalk down another instance of hindsight proving it sucks. I appreciate the help though...it's why I came here...and apologize for any fraying of nerves.
 
Last edited:
The Wehrmacht had 6 wheelers but found out in North Africa and the Soviet Union that they were not working well in sand or mud. The allies used some 4-wheeler scout cars but tracks like the Universal Carrier and the White Half track were more common. When I think of the 6-wheeler, I remember the old M561 Gama Goat. My brother was in an artillery battery that was still using some of those and some M548 tracks to suport there M110 SP guns. The Gama Goat was a lot of fun but it was loud as hell. Troopies had to wear hearing protection to operate them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gama_Goat
 
Last edited:
From what my dad told me this one did really well in the sand even though it
's only 4WD and that was with tires that were probably no wider than 195s equivalent. Going to have wider ones this time around though. The 225s fit nicely in the wheel wells with plenty of clearance and might go 235s. Is maybe 6in or so at the closest point between tires. Both sets of hangers are fixed on their front ends so no danger of the tires making contact. Helps too that this thing is quite a bit lighter than what I'd imagine the military 6X6 might have been.

Will see for sure after it fully operational again.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top