Show me your terminal box

Paps31

Paps31

Member
One step forward, two steps back.

I’ve got power to some things (lights!), but the second I hit the starter my voltage drops through the floor. Starter barely turns and engine doesn’t start.

Things are so tight in that terminal box that I’m not confident I have clean connections.

What does a clean terminal box look like? Show me.



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The starter motor does not draw power through the terminal box. It gets power directly from the battery. If the starter draws too much current, the starter needs servicing. Also check that the battery is holding a full charge.
 
The battery is charged. The starter turns fast when no power is being delivered elsewhere. Once I got juice flowing beyond the starter, I started losing power.


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First, you have to get the starter to crank the engine better.

Be sure the engine is free and not tight.

The starter is independent of the terminal box. After you have verified you have a good fully charged battery, Start with first, the battery cable connections at the starter, battery and frame ground connection, all must be clean and tight.

Check for voltage drop between the ground (Positive) post of the battery and the body of the starter WHILE THE STARTER IS CRANKING THE ENGINE. This should no more than 0.1-0.2 volts. If it is a lot more, you have a bad ground connection at the frame, a bad ground cable, a poor connection of the cable to the battery post. the starter itself not getting a good ground to the flywheel housing, etc.

I like to run a separate ground cable directly from the battery to the engine itself.

Check for voltage drop between the hot (negative) post of the battery to the starter switch WHILE CRANKING THE ENGINE. This should also be no more than 0.1-0.2 volts. Again, check for poor connections or a bad cable.

If the starter still will not crank the engine like it should, you may have a bad starter switch or starter itself.

Once you get the engine to crank correctly, you can then turn your attention to the rest of the electrical system but first you have to get the engine to crank.

Once you get the engine to crank like it should, if the engine still will not start, get back to us.

How I would proceed,

Chris W.
 
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CWPASADENA said:
First, you have to get the starter to crank the engine better.

Be sure the engine is free and not tight.

The starter is independent of the terminal box. After you have verified you have a good fully charged battery, Start with first, the battery cable connections at the starter, battery and frame ground connection, all must be clean and tight.

Check for voltage drop between the ground (Positive) post of the battery and the body of the starter WHILE THE STARTER IS CRANKING THE ENGINE. This should no more than 0.1-0.2 volts. If it is a lot more, you have a bad ground connection at the frame, a bad ground cable, a poor connection of the cable to the battery post. the starter itself not getting a good ground to the flywheel housing, etc.

I like to run a separate ground cable directly from the battery to the engine itself.

Check for voltage drop between the hot (negative) post of the battery to the starter switch WHILE CRANKING THE ENGINE. This should also be no more than 0.1-0.1 volts.

If the starter still will not crank the engine like it should, you may have a bad starter switch or starter itself.

Once you get the engine to crank correctly, you can then turn your attention to the rest of the electrical system but first you have to get the engine to crank.

Once you get the engine to crank like it should, if the engine still will nlt start, get back to us.

How I would proceed,

Chris W.
Click to expand...



Thanks. I’ll run through it again.

I HAD good connection/ground from the battery to the starter and the engine turned free, back before I had a functioning ignition system. Once I got that in, replaced the ammeter and replaced the instrument cluster-to-terminal wiring harness, the starter got sluggish.

Basically I had everything but spark. I added spark and lost the starter. Hence — one step forward, two steps back.


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It sounds like something went awry when you connected the yellow wire to the starter switch stud.
 
I think you still have a problem in the starter circuit.For something in the lightly wired ignition/lighting/charging circuit to drag that many amps from the starter while cranking would show up elsewhere.As in,melted,smoking wires.The only possible thing that I can think of,that would be connected to the work you did,is the connection of the little yellow wire that Katy mentioned at the starter.On some of the cheap,or old and corroded starter switches when you tighten the nut down the contact inside can spin.Then when you step on the switch the strap in there can short to ground.That should show up pretty quick though,smoke,snapping,etc.Did you add a fuse when you installed the wiring?
 
Just for kicks, you might check all of the non starter wires to see if any of them are hot to the touch. Never put off doing this if you have any doubts.
 
Keith True said:
I think you still have a problem in the starter circuit.For something in the lightly wired ignition/lighting/charging circuit to drag that many amps from the starter while cranking would show up elsewhere.As in,melted,smoking wires.The only possible thing that I can think of,that would be connected to the work you did,is the connection of the little yellow wire that Katy mentioned at the starter.On some of the cheap,or old and corroded starter switches when you tighten the nut down the contact inside can spin.Then when you step on the switch the strap in there can short to ground.That should show up pretty quick though,smoke,snapping,etc.Did you add a fuse when you installed the wiring?
Click to expand...



I didn’t install a fuse. Should I have?

When you say starter switch, are you talking about the ignition switch?

If you haven’t noticed, wiring is typically over my head. Doing my best.


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I believe that he is referring to the switch on the starter itself. However if it was shorting internally it would be smoking and popping.
Do put a fuse block between the starter and the wire coming off of it that goes to your terminal box. The vendors sell them.

The first place I would look for the cause of your starter turning the engine slowly is the connection of your ground wire to the frame. Pull it off and make sure that it is connected to bright shiny bare metal. Before putting it back together put some dielectric grease on the connection to keep corrosion at bay. If your running standard 12 volt cables with a 6 volt system it can contribute to your issue. 6 volt likes the bigger cables. Vendors will have the proper ones.
 
The correct cables are 00 double zero cables and they are about as thick as your middle finger...The vendors and NAPA will have them. Correct cables are a must. Ernie
 
In a nutshell - Disconnect anything that does not concern the engine
Disconnect EVERYTHING, except the starter/ignition/battery.
Check battery, positive to ground, clean connections
Check/double check that starter is wired properly (starter post to neg on batt)
Check/double check that coil is wired properly (neg to ignition)
Check/double check that key switch is wired properly
Check/double check that ammeter is wired properly
Start car

Once you get the car to start you can hook the generator and the rest up, checking all wiring as you go
 

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I was going to say the same thing Keith said in #9.
Also a worn starter drive end bushing can cause the armature to drag on the pole shoes and cause a very heavy drain and slow turning starter. An inductive ammeter layed on the starter cable can show the amp draw. The Model A starter should draw about 100 amps on 6 volts. If you have a GOOD and fully charged 6 volt battery, and the voltage at the battery posts drops below about 5.0 volts while cranking, then the amps draw is too high.
 
Do you push a button on the floorboard to make the starter engage? Or has it been converted to a solenoid style like a modern car.
 
I recently bought a 00 starter cable from a junk yard Studebaker that someone had installed. It's large enough to be used on big diesel equipment. Just buy the correct cables from a Model A [arts house.
 
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