Shimming the cowl section on a 1930 TS

C

CopperDragon3

Junior Member
I need to shim the cowl section on a recently purchased 1930 Town Sedan, Murray body and would like some pointers. There is a 1/2" gap on both sides of the cowl where the hood is supposed to meet. The previous owner was in the process of doing a frame off restoration, but passed away before finishing the job, so the local car club helped his family by finishing the job. That was in the late nineties, and the car eventually ended up stored in a barn. I'm guessing they didn't properly shim the cowl when they assembled the car and didn't bother checking the fitment of hood and cowl. When I take a level to plumb the doors, windshield and cowl, they all show the same tilt forward. I'm assuming the cowl simply needs a shim under each end, but I'm not sure how to do this, and if it would cause misalignment of the door gaps. Also, I'm thinking the steering column would have to be loosened from the frame, as well as all body to frame bolts. Any advice would be much appreciated! Also, I failed to take any "before" pictures of the fit prior to removing the radiator to replace the rusted old bolts/springs holding the radiator on.
 
I had to re-shim my entire 30 Town Sedan body. Some rubber shims were so compressed they were paper thin. I added additional rubber shims under the cowl to align the hood and doors. This is a matter of trial and error. And then more trial. The whole car may be tilted so a level may not be a good tool unless you first level the car.

I only lifted the body about 2 inches but had to take the bolts out and many other things such as the bracket for the steering column. You just have to look to see what is needed. I used a hydraulic jack under the wood frame in the front and back and then added wood to keep the body lifted. One end at a time to keep the body aligned with the frame.

New bolts and shims may be needed depending on when they were last replaced. An extra package of the rubber shims is nice to have to get everything aligned.

Your frame may be bent which will cause misalignment problems. There is no easy way to check without lifting the body.

By the way, Welcome to the Barn.
 
Wow, thank you for the detailed information, especially since you also have a Town Sedan: apples for apples so to speak! So the rubber shims for the cowl from Snyder's are round, and there are rubber body block pads as well; is this what you used on your car - round on the cowl and the square/rectangular ones on the rest of the body bolts? And where exactly so you put the jack under the car; I don't see any cross beams that would work.
 
Jacks for the main portion of the body go under the wooden cross members. See post #2 of this thread for a neat picture of a 30 TS body in all its naked glory. My 30 TS body is also off the frame but still skinned. I built some wooden box extenders to go on top of my bottle jacks to reach far enough up, but you can stack 2x4 as well (you might want to think about screwing them together for stability).

I don't remember what my jacking points were on the cowl.

When you are lifting the body be sure you don't remove all the body bolts at once. You need to keep several in place to be sure you don't shift the body on the frame.

And - don't forget to unhook the choke rod! It will bend when you lift the body if you don't.
 
So do I need to lift the cowl one side at a time, add shims and then move to the middle of the car, lift each side one at a time and add shims, then move to the rear and do the same? Or do I lift the entire body off the frame, one section at a time and add shims all at once? I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be shimming the cowl section first and then the other sections or lifting and shimming when the entire body is off the frame.
 
I would start by getting the doors on each side lined up and latching properly, then mess with the cowl. Once you get the doors aligned then you know that whatever you do to that side to line up the cowl needs to be done on a straight line, adding or subtracting at each point equally.

I used bottle jacks under the cowl and middle crossmembers and a floor jack under the rear crossmember, with extensions I made from plywood. My goal was a little different, I wanted to get the whole body off the frame so I could get 4x4 under the body to lift it enough to slide the chassis out. For what you want to do I suspect bottle jacks (with extensions or blocks) will work fine.

Realize this will likely be a slow, frustrating process with you up and down, loosening, shimming, tightening etc. a bunch of times. I think the proper word is “iterative”. Tighten each of the body bolts equally to be sure you get a consistent, reproducible crush.

Last body I did (a pickup) I think only required a couple of the thin rubber shims at the front of the cowl to get it spot on.

My ‘30 doors and hood did not line up at all when I took it apart. Once on the steel frame I built for the body everything lines up perfectly without shims. The shims were 90-year old variously compressed rubber pads, and I’m sure that the differences in shim height that developed over the car’s life was the cause of the misalignment.
 
The frame could be sagged,to cure 1/2” the body has to be raised or the radiator lowered,look at the gaps between the body and the splash apron— if it is close and touching there is some room to work with.
look at the gaps between at bottom of radiator shell to fender — is there a considerable gap the radiator could be lowered .
 
So I guess I'm asking do I need two bottle jacks, one under each side? So if I start with the doors, I would jack up one side, then the other, then put a piece of wood between the body and frame and shim both sides at the same time? Or one bottle jack to lift and shim one side of the doors, then move onto the opposite side? I was thinking maybe I should remove all the 90 year old compressed shims first and set the body right on the frame first, to get an idea of what needs shimming.
 
If I remember correctly, I built a wood U shaped part to lift both sides at the same time with one bottle jack in the center.
 
First is the radiator,hood,and cowl.Get those set,and then attack the rest downstream.I use two floor jacks and pieces of 2X4's.Your door and door post wood has to be good,if it isn't you can shim till the cows come home and get nowhere.
 
It may be helpful to purchase or borrow the green book by Les Andrews which has the dimensions for the hood / rad shell to cowl, etc. As stated above, our experience was to start with the radiator which can slide around some at the base and adjusted with the rods to tilt the top. It has to be done together with the hood to cowl dimensions. and finally with hood on. If painted , blue tape the edges and contact points and have the hood corner protectors installed. Also, the rear hood rod retainer is held in by screws in capture nuts to allow the rear of hood to slide laterally to align the side reveals, etc.
 
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