Seat cutting

cristeven

Junior Member
Hello,

I decked a block and cut seats at 45 deg. See attached images. Been wondering if I did this correctly or incorrectly according to the general opinions here. I was unable to locate any detailed ford documentation on this at the time I cut the seats. So far I’ve put about 500 miles on the engine.

Thanks,
Steve
 

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The valve looks new. It has excellent margin at the top. It looks like it is seated to the seat correctly.

Even with new or reground valves and cut valve seats, it is common to lap the valves. The lapping is only done enough to get a uniform grey band on the valve, the same width as the seat.

The grey bumpy deposits on the exhaust valve indicates that it is running fairly hot. Not too hot or it would have been burnt.

I would say that you did this correctly.

If you want to take the time, remove the exhaust valves and clean them up on a wire wheel. Then lap them. Do not use a wire wheel or wire brush with the valves in the engine because the wires break off and end up scoring the cylinder walls. If you lap the valves, remove all traces of the lapping compound.
 
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Yeah it started running rough and the intake was back firing real bad. So I did a cylinder leak test and could not manage to get number one intake to seal. (I never did that previously). So I pulled the head and investigated the valve. Did another lap on it thinking I must’ve not lapped it well the first time around. The cylinders are all terrible soot covered. So I think perhaps I’ve been running the mixture too rich. Kinda random how much you turn out that mixture knob and I never run more than half turn. Maybe I’ll run it full closed going forward.
 
Rich would be indicated by black carbon on the plugs and in the cylinder. I don't see that in your photos. The grey nodules on the exhaust valve may be carbon that has oxidized. Do you get good mileage (16 to 20 mpg)?

How do you know that the intake valve was not sealing on #1 and that it was not the exhaust valve? Did you hear a leak in the intake manifold?

What valve clearance are you running? Do you have modern adjustable lifters?

I am assuming that you do not have an air filter. Is it dusty where you live?

Adjust the GAV by how good the engine runs. Set the hand throttle to run at a high idle, 1,000 to 1,200 rpm, and turn the GAV in and out to search for the spot where the engine runs best (highest rpm). If the sweet spot is with the GAV turned all the way in, you may have a main jet that has too large of a hole or your float level is to high or another problem with the carburetor.

Do you have a high compression head?

How are you adjusting the timing? Are you searching for the knee in the timing advance? This is the same as searching for the best GAV setting. Set for a high idle and then, starting at about half advance, move the advance lever down on notch at a time until one more notch does not increase the rpm. Go back one notch and note where the lever is. This is where you should be running the ignition most of the time.

When you decked the block, did you recut the reliefs in the head? What is the clearance between the top of the pistons and the head (should be 1/16 inch). You can measure this by putting a wad of clay there and turning the engine over with the hand crank.
 
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I must have cleaned the soot before the photos but yeah everything was sure covered in the black dust. Nothing dusty around here no.

I’ve never checked the mileage, but I will now.

Using the leak tester I was able to ensure the leak was the intake and not the exhaust.

The engine has one of those old air filters with the screen wire mazes. I’ll include a photo here in case it’s odd.

This is just a standard head nothing fancy. I Measured everything to ensure there wouldn’t be any interference. Certainly there’s still plenty of relief in the head. I don’t remember the calculation but it was plenty as I recall but I never added to the relief.

Yes I’m running the adjustable lifters. Yeah I pulled both valves from number one and wire brushed them outside the block before doing more lapping installing and setting the lash.

I’ve never done the GAV mixture setting like you described but I’ll try it. I’ve never done the timing as you suggest but I will.
 

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Take off that %$&*# air cleaner and your plugs won't foul so much. Imagine yourself running down the street with a handkerchief covering your nose and mouth. Can you breathe well enough to reach your maximum speed? Same thing with the Model A carburetor. It was not designed to have an air filter stuck on it, especially the restrictive Air-Maze style that you have. Clever air cleaners have been adapted to the Model A by modern owners that will allow good breathing, but they are bulky and unsightly in my opinion.
I see that you live in Houston, which is probably rather dusty. Maybe the Air-Maze helps filter dust in the air in your neck of the woods, but it definitely will make your engine and spark plugs soot up. Try running the engine without the air cleaner as a test and see if that helps reduce sooting and improves performance. Remember: those 5 million Model A's built in four years did not have air cleaners and they seemed to have longevity on their resumes. Unless you live in a very windy and dusty desert-like area, you don't need an air cleaner. Performance and gas mileage will suffer if you use one.
If you absolutely, positively must run an air cleaner, however, you need to balance the atmospheric pressure between the two chambers in the Zenith by connecting them with a tube. Zenith realized this design flaw in their after-market Model A carbs and put a built-in passage between the chambers in about 1936 or 1937. You can achieve the same thing by externally connecting the chambers. Still, the filter element in the Air-Maze will be too restrictive. Try to find a friendlier filter. Maybe K & N has something that can be adapted? Their filters allow good breathing, but also supply excellent dust filtering capabilities.
Marshall
 
Marshall is correct as usual.

Re-lap the valves in #1 cylinder, reinstall them, and adjust their clearance. You did not mention the clearance you are running but the usual clearance for a Model A is 0.010 for the intake and 0.012 for the exhaust.

Adjust the GAV and timing as suggested. If the engine is still running rich with the GAV closed then fix the carburetor. You can know if the engine is running rich by pulling the plugs. They should be a light grey color and not sooty.

Consider a higher compression head.

The Model A requires that the driver be the brains for the engine. That means adjusting things for the conditions. Learn to do this and the car will thank you.
 
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Hello,

I decked a block and cut seats at 45 deg. See attached images. Been wondering if I did this correctly or incorrectly according to the general opinions here. I was unable to locate any detailed ford documentation on this at the time I cut the seats. So far I’ve put about 500 miles on the engine.

Thanks,
Steve


Steve, what kind of valve guides are you using? What stem clearance??
 
It looks like the valve wasn't making contact all the way around. When you lap the valves
take a sharpie and blacken the valve and seat all the way around before lapping it will show up a little better. If you don't get a good seat check your valve guides, they could be worn oval.
 
It looks like the valve wasn't making contact all the way around. When you lap the valves
take a sharpie and blacken the valve and seat all the way around before lapping it will show up a little better. If you don't get a good seat check your valve guides, they could be worn oval.

I agree Dodge. That is why I asked my questions above.

FWIW, many think the valve head is concentric to the stem straight out oof the box. Nothing could be further from the truth. Adding more, a pilot in a loose valve guide will not allow for a concentric seat when ground or cut.
 
Brent's point is for real. We ground all new valves on Kwik way six bal chuck valve grinder to insure the valve ran true. I suspect he also may have a guide problem. Dykem blue on valve and seat and then a light lap may tell a story.
 
I’ve wondered how critical is the valve guide interference. Several guides were tight and several were loose when I replaced them. I wasn’t sure if this was too important.
 
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