rust remover scam

R

Ron Blissit

Member
the rust remover advertised is a Joke Does not work at a Total waste of money I have a rusty B block I needed to clean up. Spayed several times with the Wonder Juice and nothing happenedTotal waste of money
 
Perhaps the best de-rusting you can do would be by "electrolytic" means. You can look this up.

Especially good if you're going to re-babbitt (i.e. you don't care on affecting the babbit) but may work to "dislodge" the babbitts from the block if you decide to just go ahead.

I have done it to the babbitt and in my case found everything "sound" afterwards. I did do some "peining" but this was more to find out any looseness than to correct it.

Many recommend "Baking Soda" as their base addition to the electrolite solution, but I have found common lye (sodium hydroxide) does good in low concentrations. Gets your hands dandy clean too but rinse off the "greasy" feeling with soap and water. (Sodium Hydroxide "saponifies" your skin oils which leaves the greasy feeling. ) You obviously don't put your hands into an active bath.

Today I took out a water pump which has been in the bath since Tuesday. The bath works kind of "line of sight" between the part and the electrode. I mechanically cleaned it with a hand wire brush on Thursday but gave it a couple more days to get in the corners and grease ports. Today a quick blast to catch the "flash rust" (AMAZING how fast the fresh clean surface starts to flash) and some primer.

Joe K
 
Joe K said:
Perhaps the best de-rusting you can do would be by "electrolytic" means. You can look this up.

Especially good if you're going to re-babbitt (i.e. you don't care on affecting the babbit) but may work to "dislodge" the babbitts from the block if you decide to just go ahead.

I have done it to the babbitt and in my case found everything "sound" afterwards. I did do some "peining" but this was more to find out any looseness than to correct it.

Many recommend "Baking Soda" as their base addition to the electrolite solution, but I have found common lye (sodium hydroxide) does good in low concentrations. Gets your hands dandy clean too but rinse off the "greasy" feeling with soap and water. (Sodium Hydroxide "saponifies" your skin oils which leaves the greasy feeling. ) You obviously don't put your hands into an active bath.

Today I took out a water pump which has been in the bath since Tuesday. The bath works kind of "line of sight" between the part and the electrode. I mechanically cleaned it with a hand wire brush on Thursday but gave it a couple more days to get in the corners and grease ports. Today a quick blast to catch the "flash rust" (AMAZING how fast the fresh clean surface starts to flash) and some primer.

Joe K
Click to expand...

I use the electrolysis method and prefer it over all others. Actually there is a big difference between "baking soda" and "Washing Soda" for use in an electrolysis bath. It's better to use washing soda since it is not harmful to your skin. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Arm-Hamm...id=fa42600916c9150a583109ec5a0d88b9&gclsrc=ds
 
I have used baking soda in my electrolytic cleaner for years. It will go beyond line of sight, but you have to leave it run for a few days. It won't do the fuel passages of a zenith, but will do the throat and larger air path. I've done brake backing plates and everywhere was cleaned, including the hollow under the adjusting wedge housing. I set about 5A on my power supply and let it tick over for about a week. It will also remove paint and grease. The tank is a 205 ltr/44 UK gal/55 US gal plastic barrel and I use two sheets of roofing lead as anodes.
 
old31 said:
Is an electrolytic cleaner better than sand blasting the item?
Click to expand...


I have considered that question. Electrolytic is good but it converts rust from "red rust" which can't be painted over, to "black rust" - which can. This is why I frequently combine electrolytic bath with some mechanical means like brushing or even blasting.

I have done a Worthington steam pump in electrolytic method. It sat for the better part of two weeks in the bath merrily perking away. When it came out it was pristine of red rust - and turned black.

I then left it saying "I'll get back to that when I can." It was another half a year before I could get to painting. It was still black. But black rust will, eventually, convert to red rust. I painted it and it's still good.

Another technique I'll use after getting to the black rust point is to use a phosphate coating. It used to be called "prep & etch" and was sold for removing red rust/stabilizing/conversion to black rust. Today it's called "Concrete & Steel Prep," but made by the same people.

You put this on something that has been electrolytic bathed black and it turns the part "grey." And the grey is probably good for your life.

Sandblasting I use but frequently as a "surface conditioner." Smoothing, macro-etching the surface for paint to have a good adhesion. It will remove rust - but will start to revert IMMEDIATELY. AMAZING how quickly.

Maybe use blast and then Concrete/Steel Prep?

Joe K
 
Probably the biggest concern for hydrogen embrittlement especially in our hobby is chrome plating of some iron and steel parts.
 
Having been a supervisor of a NASA contractor plating shop, we simply followed procedures that were written to avoid embrittlement. I doubt a home-grown washing-soda system would create a problem. Cast Iron can indeed be affected...but again, the level of energy used in a home system probably wouldn't be cause for alarm.

I suspect the OP tried something he saw magically remove rust online. P.T. Barnum was right! ;-)
 
Hydrogen embrittlement is the result of the plating processes on high strength steel alloys. To remove the hydrogen in the steel grain bonds, the plated part is baked at 375 degrees F for 4-hours. Landing gear struts in aviation are baked for this process and it returns the steels bond grains to a normal usable strength. Cast iron doesn't react to hydrogen like highly stressed steel since it has much different grain matrix than high carbon steels.

Naval powers around the world have used phosphoric acid to remove corrosion since Christ was a corporal. Naval Jelly is just a phosphoric acid solution suspended in a thickening agent. Phosphoric acid converts iron oxide to iron phosphate which is black and inert so the rust doesn't have to be totally removed if it's not necessary for finish purposes but it will remove the rust as well. A lot of these solutions also have zinc salts in them to promote some amount of corrosion prevention but it doesn't last very long if the part is in a corrosive environment. Phosphate treatments deposit a film of iron phosphate on the surface of steel parts. It holds oil well so if the part is oiled regularly then it will keep corrosion at bay.

Some folks use acetic acid as a rust remover but it has no long term surface protection. Sources are vinegar or fermented molasses. It smells bad but it will remove corrosion.

There are a lot of different sodas in the chemical world. Sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide can both be considered as lye and is a very strong base. It can be used to just remove grease and oil with heat but it generally takes some electrolytic action to remove rust. Baking soda is different than Washing soda. The baking kind in just sodium bicarbonate. The washing soda in sodium carbonate which is closer to lye but not quite as strong. A strong lye solution will clean well but it eats soft metal like aluminum

Oxalic acid will remove corrosion from steel. It's dicarboxylic acid but also referred to as wood bleach. It's weaker than some and works fairly well but it takes time. I don't think it has any conversion effect like most highly oxidizing acids such as nitric, sulfuric, and hydrochloric acids. They will remove metal as they remove corrosion if they are too concentrated plus the surface will oxidize immediately after removal from solution. This makes it hard to arrest the corrosion even after it's removed.
 
I have tried most of the methods detailed in the previous post by Rotorwrench before settling on EvapoRust, which contains a nontoxic and noncaustic chelating agent. It appears to have come down in price considerably from what it cost a few years ago.

However, over the past year I have been using a homemade and relatively inexpensive chelating solution,as per the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVYZmeReKKY. It works as well as EvapoRust, can be re-used, as has the same properties except that the mixture results in a citrate chelating agent rather than one based upon EDTA.
 
ursus said:
I have tried most of the methods detailed in the previous post by Rotorwrench before settling on EvapoRust, which contains a nontoxic and noncaustic chelating agent. It appears to have come down in price considerably from what it cost a few years ago.

However, over the past year I have been using a homemade and relatively inexpensive chelating solution,as per the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVYZmeReKKY. It works as well as EvapoRust, can be re-used, as has the same properties except that the mixture results in a citrate chelating agent rather than one based upon EDTA.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I am going to try that next time I need to remove rust.
 
ursus said:
I have tried most of the methods detailed in the previous post by Rotorwrench before settling on EvapoRust, which contains a nontoxic and noncaustic chelating agent. It appears to have come down in price considerably from what it cost a few years ago.

However, over the past year I have been using a homemade and relatively inexpensive chelating solution,as per the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVYZmeReKKY. It works as well as EvapoRust, can be re-used, as has the same properties except that the mixture results in a citrate chelating agent rather than one based upon EDTA.
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I switched from EvapoRust to Rust 911 a few years ago and like it much better. Faster, cheaper and lasts longer than ER. $80/gal but mixes 15:1 with water so actual cost is about $5/gal. Also tried the youtube recipe. Worked but not enough cost savings to make it worth the trouble vs Rust 911.
 
Evaporust doesn't list the type of chelating agent on the MSDS sheet. It could be phytic acid or EDTA. Both are considered safe in small quantities but larger quantities change the picture some. EDTA sticks around longer. Phytic acid is loosely related to phosphoric acid but not the same. It has more additives. EDTA could harm critters if the lap any up. GLDA is another chelating medium. I'm not sure what Rust 911 is either. It likely EDTA as well.
 
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