Restored '32 Roadster???
- Thread starter Doodlrodz
- Start date
jim1932
Well-known member
I was thinking of posting a question like this on the AACA site earlier. I am amazed by the rusted pieces that some people start with on a project. maybe a frame a cowl and wheels. All the rest is scrounged or made. I guess if you are looking at the market, as long as it is disclosed what is original and what is patched, not sure it matters what you call it.
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
Whatever it takes...the supply of perfect and complete 3-windows and roadsters is a touch smaller than the number of people who would like one!
I have a B roadster so complete and perfect that I cannot look upon it without awe...dumb luck and a wonderful wife got me that.
I have a Brookville shell I bought before the real roadster arrived...That was to be assembled on an original chassis, and I had all original top, fenders, instrument panel, and so on to complete it. It would never have been quite right in my mind...but I never thought that I would ever own a real one.
I also have an original cowl...the top, and side panels that are rusted at least half way up! If I unbolted the top and screwed it onto the Brookville, would the result be an original body with repro patch panels?? I could build that in about 15 minutes!
Anyhow, I think the identity is in the chassis; that's where Ford identified the thing as a car, and Ford of course sold running chassis, which were real Ford with serial numbers. I think in Ford usage, the motor and chassis were the car.
I have a B roadster so complete and perfect that I cannot look upon it without awe...dumb luck and a wonderful wife got me that.
I have a Brookville shell I bought before the real roadster arrived...That was to be assembled on an original chassis, and I had all original top, fenders, instrument panel, and so on to complete it. It would never have been quite right in my mind...but I never thought that I would ever own a real one.
I also have an original cowl...the top, and side panels that are rusted at least half way up! If I unbolted the top and screwed it onto the Brookville, would the result be an original body with repro patch panels?? I could build that in about 15 minutes!
Anyhow, I think the identity is in the chassis; that's where Ford identified the thing as a car, and Ford of course sold running chassis, which were real Ford with serial numbers. I think in Ford usage, the motor and chassis were the car.
1931 flamingo
Well-known member
Doodlrodz: Not going to wait for Bruce's answer. In my opinion that would be a brookville roadster. Supposedly there are enough differences in the bodies to be noticeable. Nice car but like a f/glas one it's NOT "real steel". JMO
Paul in CT
Paul in CT
What if you had a 1932 Ford roadster and in 1935 had an accident. You needed to replace 2 fenders, door skin, quarter panel and deck lid. You opted to repair the door skin with an odd piece of sheetmetal, patched up the fenders with 31 sections, reworked an older quarter panel with what you had and hammered out the deck lid. Wouldn't it still be a '32 Henry Ford roadster???
If you own a 2005 BMW and replaced the nose with aftermarket parts plus maybe a door etc. after having an accicent, don't you still have a 2005 BMW??? Albeit worth less due to an accident.
Just my thoughts. I believe if it was a 32 then, it still is. All the folks claiming to have a 32 Ford that is a repro body, steel or glass, do not have a 32 Ford. What they have is a replica or reproduction and should be stated up front. They may be fantastic rides and I hold no grudges, they are just not 1932 Henry Fords.
If you own a 2005 BMW and replaced the nose with aftermarket parts plus maybe a door etc. after having an accicent, don't you still have a 2005 BMW??? Albeit worth less due to an accident.
Just my thoughts. I believe if it was a 32 then, it still is. All the folks claiming to have a 32 Ford that is a repro body, steel or glass, do not have a 32 Ford. What they have is a replica or reproduction and should be stated up front. They may be fantastic rides and I hold no grudges, they are just not 1932 Henry Fords.
This is a wonderful discussion, and one that should be taken very seriously.
One area we could look to for guidance is the Fine Art and conservation professions. It is highly likely that over decades or sometimes hundreds of years, paintings and sculptures and other artifacts have been repaired and/or restored. The art market has protocols established to acknowledge and document such work. Often the value of a work is directly attributable to the extent of later work (and the expertise) inherent in that work. Frequently when an artwork is sold the additional work is added to the "Provenance" (documentation).
Having said that; the art market is no place for the foolish or naive. Knaves abound, and try to pass off artwork that has had extensive repairs, as original work. When this fact is discovered, the dispute then begins. This sometimes results in the vendor refunding the purchase price, the auction house buying the painting (to preserve their reputation, as they should have checked the piece), or, the commencement of legal proceedings.
Herein lies an eventual reckoning for the car industry. With such large sums of money changing hands, for what has now, for many, become an investment strategy, the buyer will expect that he has paid for what he believes is either the original article, or that such modifications or repairs as necessary, to make the vehicle what it is, have been fully disclosed to him.
In disclosing the repairs the seller must accept the price may not reach that of an original car, however he rests easy. As many an art dealer has discovered, it doesn't take too long before the legal bills surpass the profit made. Profit gone and reputation damaged, the whole exercise then becomes pointless.
The art industry has one advantage over the classic car industry, and that is; centuries of academic and scientific research. The art world has established protocols in what constitutes original and altered, and has an enviable valuation process which determines the likely value of an artwork.
If the classic car industry desires such a system it could do no better than using the established, tried and tested mechanism's or the art world. I have heard that processes similar to those I have mentioned, are adopted at some very high end auctions, however that may be due to the auction house ensuring that honest vendors are given the nod, while fraudsters are sent packing.
Regardless of where each man stands on his interpretation of what constitutes an original car, he could show no better act of faith and honesty, if he fully discloses what he knows about his car when he offers it for sale. in doing so he allows the buyer to decide where he stands, he allows the buyer to form his own opinion, and then his interpretation of what constitutes an original car.
One way to attempt a degree of honesty (for current and future reference) would be to list the modifications and repairs on the Bill Of Sale, and make a small notation on the Title that a certain document should be read in conjunction to the Title.
And then there are the guys that don't care all that much, or can't be bothered...
One area we could look to for guidance is the Fine Art and conservation professions. It is highly likely that over decades or sometimes hundreds of years, paintings and sculptures and other artifacts have been repaired and/or restored. The art market has protocols established to acknowledge and document such work. Often the value of a work is directly attributable to the extent of later work (and the expertise) inherent in that work. Frequently when an artwork is sold the additional work is added to the "Provenance" (documentation).
Having said that; the art market is no place for the foolish or naive. Knaves abound, and try to pass off artwork that has had extensive repairs, as original work. When this fact is discovered, the dispute then begins. This sometimes results in the vendor refunding the purchase price, the auction house buying the painting (to preserve their reputation, as they should have checked the piece), or, the commencement of legal proceedings.
Herein lies an eventual reckoning for the car industry. With such large sums of money changing hands, for what has now, for many, become an investment strategy, the buyer will expect that he has paid for what he believes is either the original article, or that such modifications or repairs as necessary, to make the vehicle what it is, have been fully disclosed to him.
In disclosing the repairs the seller must accept the price may not reach that of an original car, however he rests easy. As many an art dealer has discovered, it doesn't take too long before the legal bills surpass the profit made. Profit gone and reputation damaged, the whole exercise then becomes pointless.
The art industry has one advantage over the classic car industry, and that is; centuries of academic and scientific research. The art world has established protocols in what constitutes original and altered, and has an enviable valuation process which determines the likely value of an artwork.
If the classic car industry desires such a system it could do no better than using the established, tried and tested mechanism's or the art world. I have heard that processes similar to those I have mentioned, are adopted at some very high end auctions, however that may be due to the auction house ensuring that honest vendors are given the nod, while fraudsters are sent packing.
Regardless of where each man stands on his interpretation of what constitutes an original car, he could show no better act of faith and honesty, if he fully discloses what he knows about his car when he offers it for sale. in doing so he allows the buyer to decide where he stands, he allows the buyer to form his own opinion, and then his interpretation of what constitutes an original car.
One way to attempt a degree of honesty (for current and future reference) would be to list the modifications and repairs on the Bill Of Sale, and make a small notation on the Title that a certain document should be read in conjunction to the Title.
And then there are the guys that don't care all that much, or can't be bothered...