Repop Ammeter Junk

What happened to finding a cheaper way to tool up. When even the Chinese don't want to make them one then it boils down to the fact that they just don't want to mess with it. Typical corporate response. If they can't make but loads then they don't want to touch it.

It would take a hobby guy in his garage to make one for himself, then make one for a friend, and so on. The armature would be the hardest part to make. Install that in a can made to actually fit the dash. A person could likely use off the shelf parts if they were pretty close to the correct size. NOS or good used is the only way until they are all gone.
 
rotorwrench said:
What happened to finding a cheaper way to tool up. When even the Chinese don't want to make them one then it boils down to the fact that they just don't want to mess with it. Typical corporate response. If they can't make but loads then they don't want to touch it.
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I didn't post their response to Bad Mouth Stewart Warner. I asked if they had ever considered making a 1⅝" gauge to fit the Model A. They gave an honest answer and I accept that. They aren't in business to NOT make money.
 
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One of the advantages of an original ammeter is that they are undamped and the needle easily swings with the slightest current movement. This provides a good diagnostic tool. When starting the car a glance at the ammeter will show the needle swinging back and forth past the zero center. This is showing the points are opening and closing before the car starts, it tells you that battery power is reaching the points and the ignition primary circuit is operating properly.

Tom Endy
 
Externally, they have a similar appearance but fit and function don't match. The originals have a very sensitive meter movement. If it still has the original knurl nuts, they are made of bakelite and not the run of the mill plastic. There were two styles used originally but they look similar to each other. The judging standards give a relatively good description.
 
rotorwrench said:
externally, they have a similar appearance but fit and function don't match. The originals have a very sensitive meter movement. If it still has the original knurl nuts, they are made of bakelite and not the run of the mill plastic. There were two styles used originally but they look similar to each other. The judging standards give a relatively good description.
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wrong !!
 
A statement like "wrong!!" doesn't say much. There are older reproductions out there that are now antiques but that doesn't make them correct. I'm no expert but I have seen originals that reflect my description. Offer up information. This is an opportunity to give folks truthful information for historic value. I added photos of some that look like originals I've seen. If they are not, offer up some photos.
 

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alexiskai said:
I like Bratton's disclosure on the unit: "This is a fair repro but all that is currently available." Bert's says "These are made in China, and they work, but are not perfect. None have been made in the USA for the last 20 years."

I wonder if we could get these to work - they seem to be about the right size, and if they can be adapted for either 12V or 24V then maybe they can be adapted for 6V.
https://fariabeede.com/2-pages/prod_display.php?calledGauge=1_ammeter
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Ammeters are not voltage sensitive.
 
Originals have the machine screw's heads painted black so as not to show through the glass. Most repros do not. (in other words, what the thumb nuts thread on to)
 
JRrev said:
Originals have the machine screw's heads painted black so as not to show through the glass. Most repros do not. (in other words, what the thumb nuts thread on to)
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This is something I noticed too. The judging standards mentions that the entire background is painted black inside. I've never had a chance to open one up yet to look at the movement. It is likely D'arsonval type but that's only speculation on my part. The armature moves a lot with the slightest movement of the gauge.

The cheap repros are just a permanent magnet on the pivot shaft with little brass poles on each side of the magnet formed from a tiny formed brass piece that fits through slots in the shunt at the back of the unit. The pivot bearings were formed by bending the brass shunt into a small inverted cradle with tiny dimples to hold the armature shaft pointed ends . The tension on the shaft is not even adjustable plus the spring is too stiff. It relies on the shunt and the permanent magnet to give an indication which would likely have very little accuracy. They require a large amount of discharge or charge to even make the needle move at all. I certainly wouldn't adjust my 3rd brush using one. I just wouldn't trust the accuracy.
 
With respect to quality reproduction parts at additional cost, take a look at the 30-31 brake light switches. There is now a quality switch, I believe made in the USA, that is around $50 versus the cheap overseas junk repop that are $6.50. It would be interesting to ask the vendors how the sales (and profit margins) compare. If they can do it for the switches and make money you would think they could do it for the ammeters.
 
It would have to have a somewhat delicate armature and poles with hair like wire windings but stuff like that was out there in that time frame so it wouldn't surprise me. I would like to know. One day I'll find one and check it out unless someone else already has. Ford cars were made in volume with overall expenses squarely in mind but it has always amazed me how good the quality was of the components that were utilized.
 
Fun Projects used to build a D'Arsonval ammeter for the Model T, seems like that would be the place to start if you wanted to build one for the A.

Interestingly, he says that you should install a 25A fuse to protect the ammeter from high amperages and that you shouldn't use it with an alternator. I don't know that the question of how high amperage affects the ammeter has come up in the generator v. alternator debate here or the starter fuse debate.

http://www.funprojects.com/products/5016.aspx
 
alexiskai said:
Fun Projects used to build a D'Arsonval ammeter for the Model T, seems like that would be the place to start if you wanted to build one for the A.

Interestingly, he says that you should install a 25A fuse to protect the ammeter from high amperages and that you shouldn't use it with an alternator. I don't know that the question of how high amperage affects the ammeter has come up in the generator v. alternator debate here or the starter fuse debate.

http://www.funprojects.com/products/5016.aspx
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There are those who have said the "shunt" in the ammeter (the D'arsonval movement is VERY sensitive) acts as the fuse in the event of a short circuit.

So if you see a blue flash in your ammeter and then nothing works, you know where your problem is. Well, the system protection, anyway.


Joe K
 
This is an expansive definition of "fuse" that I don't think I've seen before. I guess if there's a short circuit, my headlights will "fuse" too.
 
I've had ammeters fry on alternator systems in the helicopters before. If the power wire from the alternator to the buss ever gets directly shorted to ground it will fry the internals of the gauge so bad that it will read full discharge forever more. These were 70 amp units working on 24-volt systems. A 20 amp system on 6-volts may not have enough power to do that but there is no harm in putting a fuse in any of the power output conductor wires whether it's coming from an alternator or a generator.

A fellow I used to work for built his own portable welder from a 150 amp aircraft starter generator and it would weld stuff up to 100-amps with no problem as long as a person let it cool off for a bit in between long weld beads. It would weld thin stuff all day long at 80 amps.
 
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