Replacement radiator fan for 292

[Jrappl]

1959 Edsel 292, 2v auto.

I currently have the original 4 blade radiator fan. Something is just not right about it, even with the 4 bolts very tight to the water pump the fan wiggles a little. It is the fan itself, not the water pump shaft/bearing. You can slide your fingers behind the pulley and verify it's the fan moving not the water pump.
I've had it apart and I don't see anything bent or anything in the way of a tight fit but it just doesn't.

I'm looking to replace the fan with a bolt in upgrade, maybe a 6 blade that will move more air. I thought I read somewhere I could use a Mustang fan but no idea what year/engine Mustang or where to get it.

What fan could I use for an upgrade that will just bolt in place of the old one and where could I find it.

 

[55blacktie]

Providing a photo of the mounted fan would help. What you're describing doesn't sound right.

 

[dmsfrr]

If the fan mounting bolts have a smooth shoulder below the bolt head before the threads start, the threads may be bottoming out in the water pump flange slightly before the head of the bolt tightens against the center hub of the fan, letting it wobble. A few washers may take care of it???
Or... is the flange on the front end of the water pump loose on the shaft?

 

[Jrappl]

The bolt holes on the water pump are through holes, unless they are not tapped all the way, which seems unlikely, there is no way for the bolts to bottom out. I checked both the pulley and the spacer and they seem fine, nothing in the away and flat ends.

Still I would like to upgrade to a better 6 blade fan. Any recommendations?

 

[dmsfrr]

. . . I currently have the original 4 blade radiator fan. Something is just not right about it, even with the 4 bolts very tight to the water pump the fan wiggles a little. It is the fan itself, not the water pump shaft/bearing. You can slide your fingers behind the pulley and verify it's the fan moving not the water pump.
...

Sorry, I'm still stuck on why the fan wiggles and solving that problem before changing it and having a new one be loose also. Which will eventually tear up something expensive.

Are the bolts that hold the fan on threaded most of the way up to the head of the bolt? or just a little bit at the end where they go into the water pump flange?

Here's a hypothetical photo example... (revisiting my previous comment)
If the un-threaded portion of a bolt (yellow arrow) is slightly longer than the actual thickness of the: fan hub, pump pulley and a fan spacer... the bolt will tighten up against the threads in the flange before the bolt head can clamp those parts to the surface of the water pump flange. That would allow the fan, pulley and spacer to wobble.

Or... perhaps the hole in the center of the existing fan isn't quite as large as it needs to be and is stopping before it's fully seated over the end of the fan spacer or pump shaft???

If your '59 Edsel doesn't have a shroud around the fan you'll have more choices. I'll guess most any fan off another Ford into the 70's could work. Although the oem fans with more blades could be heavier and possibly harder on the bushings in the water pump.

An auto parts store near you may have just what you're looking for, and lighter weight too.
Here's an example, scroll up or down slightly at this link...
https://www.oreillyauto.com/search?q=radiator+fan&brandNameId=Flex-A-Lite|3653&page=4
.

 

[55blacktie]

Don't buy a flex fan.

 

[Jrappl]

The bolts, pulley, spacer and fan are all original to the car. The water pump is new but has the same mounting as the old pump.

I checked and the bolts are going through the pump mount and out the back about 1/4". The center hole in the pulley and the pump shaft are sized correctly. Everything in front of the pump is the same as it was when new. The shoulder on the bolts could be bottoming on the pump weren't with the same bolts, fan, spacer and pulley on the old pump. Car was sitting for 50 years and the old pump was stuck.

Gotta love the internet, one response is buy a flex fan, the next is don't buy a flex fan...

 

[estout81]

I had a flexfan, 6 blade, on a '51 Ford and it ran hot in town. Checked air flow, wouldn't even hold a piece of paper against rad. at idle. Put a stock Ford four blade fan on and guess what, holds paper to rad. and doesn't run hot in town!

 

[dmsfrr]

...
Gotta love the internet, one response is buy a flex fan, the next is don't buy a flex fan...

Jeez guys, I'm sorry there were flex fans on that page.
My suggestion actually was to check with an auto parts store near you to see what they have.
Your request was for 'a bolt-in upgrade' that didn't specify oem / replacement parts only.
Unless there's a good old-school auto salvage yard nearby which would be an option if one exists.

Somewhere over here I've got an apparently stock 5 blade fan from '66-ish that I don't currently have a use for.
Not sure how the fan & radiator spacing are set up on that Edsel but if doesn't have a fan shroud to maximize air flow thru the radiator adding one may help more than a new fan blade set???

 

[paul2748]

Do you have any washers (a lock washer) under the head of the bolts? Like dmsfrr said, it seems like the bolt is bottoming out before drawing the parts up tight.

I would suggest this. Take just the spacer, put it on the water pump and with some shorter bolts see if the spacer draws up tight to the pump.

With the spacer off the pump, take the fan and put it on the spacer - check to see if the fan draws up tight to the spacer with some bolts and nuts. Same with the pulley and then check the pulley fit to the pump to make sure it slides on the middle "knob" ok.

If everything draws up tight, then the problem pretty much has to be the bolts bottoming out on the pump. Add a washer to the bolt and tighten to see if the looseness goes away. If you have the correct die, you can thread the bolt down further

In many of the fans I have pulled off Ford engines, the bolts were fully threaded, probably to make sure there is no bottoming out of the bolt.


And I agree - stay away from a flex fan unless you want some custom alterations to your hood and radiator.


Do you know for sure that the wiggle wasn't there before removal?

 

[Daves55Sedan]

The bolt holes on the water pump are through holes, unless they are not tapped all the way, which seems unlikely, there is no way for the bolts to bottom out.

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT???
A previous owner may have swapped the original fan bolts for "shoulder-bolts" which have a portion of the stud NOT THREADED down near the bolt head, thus, that shoulder could bottom-out on the water pump flange prior to the bolt head being able to clamp down on the fan blade.
If there is a spacer between the the fan blade and water pump flange, your bolts SHOULD already be shoulder-bolts. BUT if the spacer is missing, one must get shorter bolts treaded ALL THE WAY TO THE HEAD.
Your car should have a spacer. If it doesn't, you should try to get one (I think they are same length from '57-59) and the correct bolts.
The spacer is intended to get the fan-blade as close to the radiator as possible without actually hitting the fins. This improves cooling. Running without the spacer might cause engine overheating.
Beginning in '57, the Y-blocks were factory equipped with a 4-blade fan which was more than adequate for cooling of the fluid in the system. Swapping to a different type of fan with more blades or less may cause the need to reduce the size of the spacer between water pump flange and fan blade to take into account the blade tilt on the new fan-blade. that means cutting or lengthening the existing spacer and getting shorter or longer fan bolts whose shoulder length does not now interfere with tightening the new fan blade to the water pump flange.

 

[Gene F]

I have never seen a water pump that the bolt holes on the flange are not threaded all the way through. I have a 57 292, and I put a 6 blade fan on this past year. I am betting that it's washers, or the bolts bottoming out.

If nothing else, pull the water pump, and assemble the thing on the work bench where you can see what is going on. Trust you insticts. If they are telling you it's not right, keep investigating.

 

[55blacktie]

According to The H.A.M.B., almost any Ford fan should fit an Edsel. Consensus is Edsels don't have fan shrouds. I would check with Edsel club/edsel.com. If you want to know what fits an Edsel, talk to an Edsel owner.

I can understand your frustration, but it sounds like it should be a simple fix/w the right parts.

 

[Jrappl]

The fan, spacer and pulley are factory original and appear to be in good shape but 61 years old. Everything looks like I remember it did way back when I was replacing water pumps on my 60s and 70s Ford, Mercury and F100 daily drivers. It has a new 180 degree thermostat that according to my IR temp gun is opening right around that temp.

I don't remember there being any play or wiggle when I removed the fan. The car had been sitting 45 years and the pump was seized. It's been a while but I think everything was tight while I tried to get the pump free.

I do have a lock washer on each bolt, just the way it came off. I'll pull the fan tomorrow and check everything again especially the bolt and thread length.

My Edsel did not come with a shroud and I don't want to add one.

I was looking for a 6 blade fan to pull more air through the radiator (new 3 row). There is a new temp sending unit on the car but the gauge reads high about 2/3 of the way to hot when the engine is warmed up. It also will go higher if I'm stuck idling in traffic but will drop back to 2/3 when I get moving again - air flow problem.

When the temp gauge is at 2/3 the IR guns says the temps are good, 175-180 at the thermostat housing, about 200 on the rear intake near the sensor. The only warmer spots I could find were on the heads just above the center 2 exhaust ports on each side - 215 degrees.

I do understand that the gauge may not be accurate but I don't like looking at temp gauges that are over 1/2 and would especially like to correct it getting hotter when idling by pulling more air in.

 

[KULTULZ]

If you see a fan blade wiggle while the engine is running and the WP is OK, you either have a bent fan and/or fan hub or the fan is not mounted correctly.

The 59 FORD 292 came through with either a 4-blade or 5-blade fan. Both used a fan spacer. EDSEL had its own PARTS BOOK and is hard to find cheap.

You need to find a 5-blade take-off or NOS. If you measure pilot hub size and fan dia, a walk through a older salvage yard should find a suitable replacement.

 

[Ole Don]

Try to find an old style junk yard you can visit once in a while. Any fan on a Ford engine from the sixties through the nineties except 429, 460, and big sixes will fit the Y block. My 312 used a fan from a Granada with a 250 six and A/C. Alway keep the spacers and bolts together. Too long a bolt can contact the water pump, worst case is broken parts.

 

[Gene F]

My factory dash gage was more accurate than I though. I put a tach, oil, temp combo under the dash that I had from a muscle car that I converted over to factory gages.

Here's the deal. I know you don't want to, but ya need a shroud if ya want a decent water temp in traffic. I have the best radiator that Concourse Parts sells, and I didn't put the shroud on till later. Glad I ordered it, because I ended up opening the box and installing it.

It's your car, but if you are like me you hate short-cuts". If you want to drive it with confidence, shell out the $200 and put a shroud on it.

 

[fiddy6]

The ford 4 blade should be enough. Is it masking another cooling issue?

I'm loath to replace an OEM part that seemingly doesn't work well enough.

 

[dmsfrr]

The ford 4 blade should be enough. Is it masking another cooling issue?
I'm loath to replace an OEM part that seemingly doesn't work well enough.

It's apparently fairly common for the water jackets in the block to clog up with debris that has to be removed by hand using diy tools.

 

[packrat5]

If everything bolts up as it should, it's the water pump. Don't use a flex fan, or one of those aftermarket "wonders". www.flex-a-lite.com has an endless amount of new O.E. fan stuff. Yes, I know, it's flexalite, but they make lots of other stuff too. Check it out. No used junk yard, or bent flea market junk. And yes, use a shroud if you can. The fan is very inefficient without one. Besides, that spinning fan hanging out in the open is just waiting to grab something, or someone.