Removing a stuck flathead cylinder head
- Thread starter cancorsa
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39portlander
Well-known member
Marv, that ATF/Acetone combo is good stuff. Walt Dupont had that go'in all over when he did my flathead. I now keep a small squirt container on my service van
Capn John
Well-known member
I'm not going to verify or endorse this. Draw your own conclusions.
Happy knuckle busting !
Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.
*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*
None ..................... 516 pounds
WD-40 .................. 238 pounds
PB Blaster ............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ..... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch
and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.
I managed to get a copy of the original article from the magazine--I
think it was courtesy of Scott Rollins. Someone goofed even in the original
article--the home brew was Power Steering Fluid, not ATF. The text of the
article says ATF, but the accompanying photo shows Power Steering Fluid.
Also, the test was not with the torque to remove a nut from a bolt, but
instead was the pressure to press a 1/4" rod out of a 1/4" hole that was
originally a light finger fit. He explains the "scientifically rusted"
procedure too.
Happy knuckle busting !
Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.
*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*
None ..................... 516 pounds
WD-40 .................. 238 pounds
PB Blaster ............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ..... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch
and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.
I managed to get a copy of the original article from the magazine--I
think it was courtesy of Scott Rollins. Someone goofed even in the original
article--the home brew was Power Steering Fluid, not ATF. The text of the
article says ATF, but the accompanying photo shows Power Steering Fluid.
Also, the test was not with the torque to remove a nut from a bolt, but
instead was the pressure to press a 1/4" rod out of a 1/4" hole that was
originally a light finger fit. He explains the "scientifically rusted"
procedure too.
rotorwrench
Well-known member
If that old motor's studs are rusted pretty bad and the penetrant wont let it free up, I've seen several folks make up a plate they can attach to the spark plug holes then by aligning and drilling several holes to match stud positions on each end, they tap the holes for jack screws to push against the studs. It takes some yankee enginuity to make this type of puller rigg but sometimes that's the only way to get er done.
Those old Lincolns are rare so I don't imagine a guy will find too many good heads or blocks just laying around.
Kerby
Those old Lincolns are rare so I don't imagine a guy will find too many good heads or blocks just laying around.
Kerby
FRANK PKNY
Well-known member
I just freed up a model T engine that was rusted tight. I PLANED TO GET SOME Actone and while waiting for the weekend to come, so I would have time to go to the parts store, I applied liberal amounts of diesel fuel. That worked to free it up .Just diesel fuel works very well and is less toxic than Actone which by the way is a known carcengenic. You boys may want to try that and see if you agree with me. Frank pkny
john hamilton
Senior Member
If you are going to spin the engine to free up the head just loosen all the headbolts about 1/8". If everything is free the cylinder with compression will try to free itself and the one on intake won't. Heads don't flex.
FL&WVMIKE
Well-known member
No one has mentioned the trick of feeding rope into the cylinders and turning the engine over.
Or, if the engine is running, to start it, with the head bolts loosened.
MIKE
PS ..... Acetone and Automatic Transmission Fluid do not mix - You have to shake it well, before each use.
Or, if the engine is running, to start it, with the head bolts loosened.
MIKE
PS ..... Acetone and Automatic Transmission Fluid do not mix - You have to shake it well, before each use.
Lanny
Well-known member
The acetone just Thins Out the trans fluid to make it penetrate the rust easier, but the
acetone evaporates VERY fast (the warmer the temperature, the faster it evapotates)
so in a short time, (hours, NOT days) all that is left is the trans fluid doing all the
penetrating, so KEEP spraying on the 50-50 mix VERY often, for maximum penatrating results.
Do your own test, and put some trans fluid in a small Open container,
and put some acetone in another small Open container, and you will see
that the trans fluid does NOT evaporate, but the acetone evaporates
within hours, depending on the temperature, so by the next day, all
that is left is the trans fluid, the acetone is gone.
So fact is, if you mix up a batch of 50-50 mix, and spray it on
something, by the next day, or sooner,,,,, No more 50-50 mix.
.
acetone evaporates VERY fast (the warmer the temperature, the faster it evapotates)
so in a short time, (hours, NOT days) all that is left is the trans fluid doing all the
penetrating, so KEEP spraying on the 50-50 mix VERY often, for maximum penatrating results.
Do your own test, and put some trans fluid in a small Open container,
and put some acetone in another small Open container, and you will see
that the trans fluid does NOT evaporate, but the acetone evaporates
within hours, depending on the temperature, so by the next day, all
that is left is the trans fluid, the acetone is gone.
So fact is, if you mix up a batch of 50-50 mix, and spray it on
something, by the next day, or sooner,,,,, No more 50-50 mix.
.
rotorwrench
Well-known member
Most auto trans fluid is just low viscosity mineral based oil. Some have detergents and other conditioner additives and some don't. Just mentioning trans fluid isn't being too specific. Synthetic oils such as turbine oil probably have better characteristics for penetration than mineral oils do. Some types might work better than others. Just about any aeromatic solvent would probably work as well as acetone. MEK, acrylic laquer thinner, prep sol, or what have you.
If it works for you I say use it but to say something works better than a product made to do that job without any controled scientific test procedures to back up the data is not what I would call good science. A mix of diesel and gasolene would probebly work as well as anything else I've heard of. If it aint fast enough just put a match to it. It'll loosen up then.
I'd still like to know how they rusted up that many bolts and they all would corrode at the same rate and take the same amount of torque to loosen them. That's just crap in my book.
Kerby
If it works for you I say use it but to say something works better than a product made to do that job without any controled scientific test procedures to back up the data is not what I would call good science. A mix of diesel and gasolene would probebly work as well as anything else I've heard of. If it aint fast enough just put a match to it. It'll loosen up then.
I'd still like to know how they rusted up that many bolts and they all would corrode at the same rate and take the same amount of torque to loosen them. That's just crap in my book.
Kerby
txpoolman2
New member
How do I remove a stuck flathead cylinder head ?The acetone just Thins Out the trans fluid to make it penetrate the rust easier, but the
acetone evaporates VERY fast (the warmer the temperature, the faster it evapotates)
so in a short time, (hours, NOT days) all that is left is the trans fluid doing all the
penetrating, so KEEP spraying on the 50-50 mix VERY often, for maximum penatrating results.
Do your own test, and put some trans fluid in a small Open container,
and put some acetone in another small Open container, and you will see
that the trans fluid does NOT evaporate, but the acetone evaporates
within hours, depending on the temperature, so by the next day, all
that is left is the trans fluid, the acetone is gone.
So fact is, if you mix up a batch of 50-50 mix, and spray it on
something, by the next day, or sooner,,,,, No more 50-50 mix.
.
Karl Wolf
Well-known member
I tap the studs sideways with a punch- different directions... (leave the nuts on, loose maybe 1/2 turn, hit them).
I go at he intake side with wide wood chisels. To wedge up, one end then other.
And some oil, I also like the ATF+ whatever solvent I have- mix...
I also try to exhibit patience, walk away for a while if things get frustrating...
Would be apprehensive about putting something in the cylinders.
Most of the tough ones I've done have not been in a runnable situation.
Karl
I go at he intake side with wide wood chisels. To wedge up, one end then other.
And some oil, I also like the ATF+ whatever solvent I have- mix...
I also try to exhibit patience, walk away for a while if things get frustrating...
Would be apprehensive about putting something in the cylinders.
Most of the tough ones I've done have not been in a runnable situation.
Karl
SofaKing
Well-known member
Make a puller similar to Mr42 and pay attention to the bolts he is using, they work when the puller bottoms on the top of the studs. If the studs are corroded the head will stick all the way up. The plug holes are not centered so the head tends to rock on the studs parting the top of the head before the bottom. Use this to your advantage and use wood or plastic wedges. Pull at the plugs, use wedges to break parting line at the bottom and lift there. Pull at top again using plus holes and repeat until you are pissed, then repeat for a couple more hours. Good luck. This is not the worst job, that would be removing the valves with the 2 piece guides.
SofaKing
Well-known member
One more thing regarding solvent, I tried PB blaster and the magical atf concoction and found no discernible difference. This is an endurance test and for that alcohol was the most effective solvent. My preferred variety is beer, chose your favorite and let the game begin.
richard crow
Well-known member
when i was a kid my father had a old ford with a cracked head. he tried takeing all the nuts off & start the eng no luck . he drove the car to & from work with the nuts off for a week no luck. he than made a saw out of a piece of pipe that went over the studs. that worked. i think thats how i lerned foul lanage.