Refreshing my model a engine with B parts

Leoneidas

Leoneidas

Junior Member
I had decided to repair my cooling system overheating issues and instead of starting small with radiator repairs, I decided to open up a can of worms like an idiot. Had one headstud break while trying to remove the head to replace the headgasket and it's been a fun journey from there. I'll make a separate post on this and my trans rebuild. It will be receiving a Model B head and a single downdraft carb but am curious about some Model B parts that I had acquired for the rebuild.

Below are some photos of two different 1932 Model B waterpumps and I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the one that appears to be homemade. The original looking pump and impeller has the part number B-8506 and the other has a custom looking impeller, a chamfered front bearing housing no markings at all.

Thanks in advance.
 

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Pretty sure one is for 1932, ...and the other is for 1933/34. The radiator is laid back more on the 33/34, hence the reason for the different outlet angle.
 
This is a 1933-34 pump, notice how close together the grease fittings are.
 

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Leoneidas said:
I had decided to repair my cooling system overheating issues and instead of starting small with radiator repairs, I decided to open up a can of worms like an idiot. Had one headstud break while trying to remove the head to replace the headgasket and it's been a fun journey from there. I'll make a separate post on this and my trans rebuild. It will be receiving a Model B head and a single downdraft carb but am curious about some Model B parts that I had acquired for the rebuild.

Below are some photos of two different 1932 Model B waterpumps and I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the one that appears to be homemade. The original looking pump and impeller has the part number B-8506 and the other has a custom looking impeller, a chamfered front bearing housing no markings at all.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


I think both pumps are 1932 based on the spacing of the grease fittings (see photo, 32 on left and '33-'34 on right). Nobody mentioned it but I think there are two water passages in the Model A block that need to be plugged. You can see them by laying a model B gasket on top of a Model A gasket, they will be too close to the edge of the gasketI assume you will use a Model B gasket as the Model A gasket would hang unsupported into the combustion area. If it was me I would find a head that uses a Model A water pump as Model B pumps are getting hard to find and the best new pumps or rebuilds are for Model A's.

Charlie Stephens
 

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Didn't they use the short pump for the double BB trucks with a thicker radiator?

I think I have one of those short pumps somewhere amongst my spare parts.
 
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The B head gives only a slight increase in compression and you have to use an increasingly difficult to obtain B water pump (and parts for it). Why not a high compression A head and stick with the A water pump?
It's a no brainer to me.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
Pretty sure one is for 1932, ...and the other is for 1933/34. The radiator is laid back more on the 33/34, hence the reason for the different outlet angle.
Click to expand...

i would agree that the 33-34 is a smaller housing with the grease fittings very close together for the reason you stated but these are both for a 32 as the housings are the same with the longer distance between the front and rear grease fittings. I was more curious about the odd looking impeller and not so much what they were from.
 
Charlie Stephens said:
I think both pumps are 1932 based on the spacing of the grease fittings (see photo, 32 on left and '33-'34 on right). Nobody mentioned it but I think there are two water passages in the Model A block that need to be plugged. You can see them by laying a model B gasket on top of a Model A gasket, they will be too close to the edge of the gasketI assume you will use a Model B gasket as the Model A gasket would hang unsupported into the combustion area. If it was me I would find a head that uses a Model A water pump as Model B pumps are getting hard to find and the best new pumps or rebuilds are for Model A's.

Charlie Stephens
Click to expand...

This is the conclusion I came to as well, both 32. The odd one has an interesting impeller that I had never seen before. I was more curious if anyone had seen this style before and if it were aftermarket or homemade.
Thanks for looking out on the differences between the B and A heads to block mating surface. There are 2 steam holes that need to be filled and I do have a Model B gasket to install. I had thought about the high compression Model A head with a leakless Model A water pump. I picked up the Model B head and the water pump for right around $200 shipping included. I guess you could say I was trying to penny pinch since I had to remove 8 broken headstuds. Was a reman engine with tag but all the helicoils got seized. Couldn't remove with heat, welding, nothing. They were grown in and had to use a mag drill to remove them. I also found about 4 '32 pumps within a week. While I understand they're more rare they still seem to be out there and Renner's Corner seems to offer an extensive rebuild kit for them if it's necessary. Ease of replacement parts would by HC head and leakless water pump though. Might go that route if/when I need to fully rebuild the engine.
 
Synchro909 said:
The B head gives only a slight increase in compression and you have to use an increasingly difficult to obtain B water pump (and parts for it). Why not a high compression A head and stick with the A water pump?
It's a no brainer to me.
Click to expand...


You're definitely not wrong in anything you said. It makes perfect sense. I guess it was just penny pinching for the time being and when I looked, the HC head wasn't available on Snyder's. I was able to pick up a Model B head and pump for $200. I have also found many more B pumps since. They're much harder to find but still out there.
 
BrianH said:
Didn't they use the short pump for the double BB trucks with a thicker radiator?
Click to expand...

No, The BB Truck used the same pump as the B lite commercial and passenger cars.

In my opinion, you would be much better off to use a high compression "A" head and a "A" water pump. The "B" head will not give you much performance upgrade.

Chris W.
 
The Model B cylinder head has a compression ratio of 2.6:1 that is slightly higher then the Model A's 2.22:1. In my opinion, the value of installing a Model B head is not worth the effort. I recommend installing one of the new heads with a 5.5:1 or a 6:1 compression ratio.
 
Bob Bidonde said:
The Model B cylinder head has a compression ratio of 2.6:1 that is slightly higher then the Model A's 2.22:1. In my opinion, the value of installing a Model B head is not worth the effort. I recommend installing one of the new heads with a 5.5:1 or a 6:1 compression ratio.
Click to expand...

2.6 is a pretty low compression ratio!! :eek: :eek:
 
Bob Bidonde said:
The Model B cylinder head has a compression ratio of 2.6:1 that is slightly higher then the Model A's 2.22:1. In my opinion, the value of installing a Model B head is not worth the effort. I recommend installing one of the new heads with a 5.5:1 or a 6:1 compression ratio.
Click to expand...


I'm sure it's just a typo but I think you mean 4.22 for the Model A and 4.6 for the Model B. To be honest, there is really not much effort. Model B head gasket, water pump, block 2 steam holes and you're done.

Model A high compression head is obviously more beneficial but I was uncertain of doin so with an engine that I don't know the history of. My thought was to do the HC head when I need to rebuild the engine. My main concern was getting it back up and driving as inexpensive as possible. I rebuilt the transmission as well with all new bearings and will be using a single downdraft stromberg, not sure which size yet.
 
CWPASADENA said:
No, The BB Truck used the same pump as the B lite commercial and passenger cars.

In my opinion, you would be much better off to use a high compression "A" head and a "A" water pump. The "B" head will not give you much performance upgrade.

Chris W.
Click to expand...


I agree with this and it's what I will probably do in the future when I decided to refresh the engine. Currently, my goal is to get it back up and driving as inexpensive as possible just to be able to enjoy it. The HC A head and a leakless water pump is definitely the most beneficial setup. At that time I will also add a header and a dual carb setup just for fun and maybe a mallory distributer but I'm still on the fence with that as it's still nice to play with the timing while driving.
 
I actually just removed all of the B parts off my diamond B block and replaced them with A parts. I prefer the look of the A parts and the wonky fitting of the B water pump with the A radiator wasn't to my liking. I'm happy with how it operates; not a huge difference in my book.
 
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