Rebuilt Motor stuck

diggidy

diggidy

Member
A friend has a '29 roadster pickup that he had the motor rebuilt in 2006, and it had been sitting out of the car wrapped in plastic since. He asked me to install it and get it running. I was worried about it being wrapped in plastic all of these years, but it appeared to be clean and rust free. I assembled everything in the truck and when I went to turn it over with the hand crank, it is stuck tight. It won't budge at all. I'm assuming that the rings have stuck from sitting. I put Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders, but after a few days, it still won't budge. I knew that a new rebuild would be tight, but this one is really stuck. Any suggestions?
 
I would put fuel oil or some other kind of product like it in the cylinders to try to free up the pistons/rings. I would let it sit for a week or two if you can to let the lub work. If you then can securely connect the front of the roadster to a modern car and with the roadster in gear (high is best as it is probably easier on the tansmission) slowly pull the roadster with the modern car. This will normally turn over a tight rebuilt engine. I would then change the oil and then try to fire it up. Just my thoughts. Other Fordbarners probably have other methods with dismantling the engine (last resort).
Rusty Nelson
 
diggidy said:
A friend has a '29 roadster pickup that he had the motor rebuilt in 2006, and it had been sitting out of the car wrapped in plastic since. He asked me to install it and get it running. I was worried about it being wrapped in plastic all of these years, but it appeared to be clean and rust free. I assembled everything in the truck and when I went to turn it over with the hand crank, it is stuck tight. It won't budge at all. I'm assuming that the rings have stuck from sitting. I put Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders, but after a few days, it still won't budge. I knew that a new rebuild would be tight, but this one is really stuck. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Yeah, your instincts were on and should have been acted upon ! I would first remove all spark plugs. Ask owner if, prior to plastic wrap, he did any prep for storage ? Mainly, spray ATF and/or any lube on inside of stored engine. If not , I'd now put ATF in each cylinger and leave plugs out for now. Let it sit for while , over night. Make sure that crankcase has oil. I'd drain it anyway to look at. Then dump a quart down distributor hole. Put another three quarts into crankcase and check it full. I'd probably take valve cover off and spray ATF over lifters, etc in there.
You probably are dealing with YEARS worth of condensation from being plastic wrapped. But it rebuilt, you shouldn't really be dealing with much problems, once everything (valve stems/lifters) lubed. Use vehicle , in gear, to move engine back/forth a little AFTER prescribed lube period (overnight). Since it should be tight, I might tow it around in gear a little after it is lose , before putting plugs back in...and trying starter. LUCK ,eh:)
 
Be prepared for the atf you put in the cylinders to come back out when you turn the engine over.
Was the cooling system drained? what condition is the cooling system in. Rust likes to form in the cooling jacket, much worst if there was condensation/coolant in the jacket. I have experienced the results of water left in the block for over a year. Back flush before you hook up the radiator to the block.
Good radiator? Good water pump?
Be through, and not in a terrible hurry to start up this motor.
Also, the clutch disk may be rusted to the flywheel.
 
atf is good, but a better solution is pour a mixture of acetone and atf in the cylinders, and let set for a week, the try to turn engine, if still stuck fill the cylinders with the acetone atf mix and let set some more, and if possible pull the valve plate and drown the valve stems and lifters with the atf and acetone mix, patience is what is needed now, you don't want to force the engine to turn over and possible break some rings, just go slow
 
I'm with Bob C-have you tried the starter? Sometimes a rebuilt engine is hard or almost impossible to turn by hand, but will turn over with a starter. You will hear lots of opinions on just how "tight" a rebuilt engine should be. The last two I rebuilt I could not turn over by hand but could with the starter. Once it had been turned over a couple times I could crank it by hand, but if it sat for any length of time I could not hand crank it. FWIW
 
After the lube sets in the cylinders overnight, then try pulling the car slowly in high gear and hit the starter at the same time. If this doesn't free it up, I'd say your in for an engine teardown.
 
It may not be as bad as it seems. If one valve is stuck in the closed position, it won't allow the engine turn in the direction that it turns when it runs. Take the starter off and try a cheater bar on the teeth of the flywheel ring gear, Try turning the engine backwards. If it is a stuck closed valve, the engine will back up untill the cam lobe backs up off the lifter on the stuck valve. A guy traded me a AA truck with a rebuilt engine that had sit for a few years and not run. I ruined the crankshaft ratchet nut trying to turn it with the crank. When I finally discovered the problem. I removed the valve cover and manifolds and proceded to unstick the valves. After a little work, I had it turning over with the starter and my 12 volt jump start. Good luck.
 
FWIW: Just one (1) experience to share:

Be mindful that some think that Babbitt bearings should be set on the tight side such that the engine crankshaft is very difficult to rotate on start up.

By the time the Model A came out, most guys already knew what was published in the Model T mechanics manual & that of all other vintage car manufacturers, & steam engine manufacturers; i.e., that:

1. After assembly, main bearings should be set so one can "easily" slide the crankshaft fore & aft; & likewise,

2. After assembly, connecting rod bearings should be set so one can "easily" slide the connecting rods back & forth.

3. All Babbitt bearing were "successfully" set with absolutely no "felt" up & down movement; but were set where easy sliding side ways allowed for a film of oil to flow through a non-pressurized oil splashing system.

4. In fact, it was done that way on steam engines since the 1820's & later all the way through more modern times, before aluminum foil & Plastigage were used.

Could be bearings are tight.
 
I took the starter off and can turn the flywheel both directions about an inch with a prybar, then it stops, so it must not be the pistons. Must be a stuck valve. Would slowly pulling the car break it loose, or break something else?
 
I once got a rebuilt engine back from a reputable rebuilder who either forgot to install all bearing shims or one fell out while installing them. Needless to say it was impossible to turn the engine over by hand. Sure was glad I checked before using the starter.
 
diggidy said:
I took the starter off and can turn the flywheel both directions about an inch with a prybar, then it stops, so it must not be the pistons. Must be a stuck valve. Would slowly pulling the car break it loose, or break something else?
Click to expand...

How easily did the flywheel move for that inch?

If the pistons were exactly at top and bottom of the travel, you could still have stuck pistons and probably be able to move the flywheel an inch. You can look through a plug hole to see if the pistons are at the top and bottom.
 
Did he have babbit bears in it mine in the 70's was so hard to turn the old boys told me to pull it with a car or truck to losen up the bearings.
 
I bought an engine with the transmission attached that the guy said the engine was
stuck. Like yours I could move it back and forth a very little bit. I noticed some
loose bolts on the transmission cover, long story short the trans was in two gears.
engine was fine.

Bob
 
The guy that rebuilt the engine didn't install a bolt in the the timing pin hole ? I've heard of that happening before. Bolt was cranked in against the timing gear.
 
I just came in from the shop. I am able to get the flywheel to move a complete revolution by prying on it, and the front piston that seemed to be stuck is now moving. I'm going to get the owner here tomorrow and we will pull it slowly in 3rd gear to get things moving easier. Thanks for all of the responses.
 
I won't tell you what to do. To be perfectly honest, I raally can't see where pistons being at top or bottom would have any effect if the engine will back up with a prybar, the engine would turn back the other way a little bit untill the lobe of the cam reached the lifter the other way and then stop again. Yes it could other problems but a stuck closed valve is the likely culpret. I wouldn't tear into the engine any farther than I had to. What Bob C says is a possibility but my bet is that it is a valve . I would remove the manifolds so that I could spray some good penetrant like Kroil, Licquid Wrench or PB Blaster on the upper valve stems through the ports. If you have a valve spring compresser or could borrow or rent one , I would compress the springs one at a time and see if I could move the valves. I have used vise grip pliers on the lower valve stems to wiggle the valve back and forth to help free it up from the valve guide. If the valves moves oil it some more, return the valve keeper and move to the next valve untill all are free . I would pour thin penetrant in the spark plug holes. Then I would try the cheater bar again on the flywheel with all of the spark plugs out. After pouring oil in the plug holes I wouldn't try turning the engine with the spark plugs in the head because you could get a hydra lock from the oil on top of the pistons. If the engine would turn with the cheater bar, I would reinstall the starter and use the starter to turn the engine while I sprayed more penetrant through the ports and through the valve springs while watching the action of the valves To be sure that they were all opening and closing. I would never stick anything through a plug hole and try driving down on a valve, There is just too much risk of bending a valve and causing real problems. If all else failed I would remove the transmission top and check for what Bob C said, in two gears at once.

As I've said , anything is possible. I won't tell you what to do because I don't want to be to blame if something goes wrong. I will only say what I would do . I have had this problem more than once with model A's and an old tractor with a Continental four cylinder flathead engine. Good luck.
 
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