Rebuilt Flathead Problems.

[flatjack9]

I don't think the length difference will cause a problem. They also make stem locks that will reduce the spring length .060 and thus requiring less shim.

 

[pooch]

cancel.

 

[GordonC]

I appreciate the try pooch!

 

[GordonC]

Thanks Gary!

 

[GordonC]

I have measured the length of the springs themselves uninstalled from the guides and the list of measurements is in the first picture. Don't know if this is good or bad, just here it is. I also installed #1 intake valve and guide back in the block and installed the retainer clip. I pressed the guide up to hold the clip in place and then took a measurement using my dividers as best I could. I got a measurement of 1.675 when I measured the tips of the dividers using my verniers. Is this the correct way to get the installed height?

 

[48fordnut]

Just read all of this. Some good advice. Hope you can get it going soon. I had a problem getting the crank gear off .Had to use a press. Keep up the good work and Spirits.

 

[Ronnie]

In your pictures it appears that the valve stems have 2 grooves and not 1 groove. The valve locks are installed in the groove closest to the valve tip and not in the second groove. The 2nd groove is used for a stock Chevy stem seal (square o ring) and not for a valve keeper. Ignore the second groove and use only the others for your keepers. Installing them this way the installed height will be greater. Hope this makes your measuring easier and correct.

R

 

[JSeery]

I have measured the length of the springs themselves uninstalled from the guides and the list of measurements is in the first picture. Don't know if this is good or bad, just here it is. I also installed #1 intake valve and guide back in the block and installed the retainer clip. I pressed the guide up to hold the clip in place and then took a measurement using my dividers as best I could. I got a measurement of 1.675 when I measured the tips of the dividers using my verniers. Is this the correct way to get the installed height?

Looks good to me. So for the #1 intake the free spring height is 2.170 and the measured distance from the guide to the retainer is 1.675. That should compress the spring .495 when installed. Now you need to determine what the spring pressure is at 1.675.

If you were building an all out performance engine I would check each spring assemble, but for a street engine the one set of measurements should be ok and just set all of them to that value.

 

[JSeery]

cancel.

was thinking out loud, it did not work.

Cannot delete pic.

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[flatjack9]

As Ronnie said, you should be using the bottom groove. I'm thinking the spring might bind at the top of the lift if you use that groove. This is another thing you need to check. If your spring is installed at 1.675, you need to subtract the lift at the cam from that number and check the spring to make sure it doesn't bind. If the lift is .300, you need to check it at 1.375. Also check the pressure at that height.

 

[JSeery]

Sorry I glossed over the valve groove issue Ronnie and flatjack pointed out! The shop was most likely using this to get around the shim requirement. You need to recheck the valve assembly with the retainer in the proper valve stem groove. And it will almost certainty require shims. I believe that the second groove will not hold the retainer properly and can throw the retainer in use. It's kinda a big deal.

 

[GordonC]

Ok! A little back yard engineering and we have a super duper high performance spring tester courtesy of some of the ideas you boys have shown here. Picked up an el cheapo $12 scale from Wally world. Grabbed an old scrap valve I had laying around. Cleaned it up and chucked it up in the drill. Threw the scale on the drill table. Leveled it. Placed a piece of scrap steel on it for protection. Set the needle to zero. Set the handle to stop at 1.675" and then tested all the springs. Here are a few pictures along with the results.

I wondered about the 2 grooves on the valve. Interestingly enough the valve spring locks have the width on the keeper to fit the second groove perfectly. The top groove is somewhat larger so they will probably fit on there as well.

Oh, just for grins because there was some concern for these being progressive wound springs installed incorrectly I tested them from both sides and the posted numbers were the same in either direction.

 

[GordonC]

It just dawned on me that my installed spring height was done with the keeper in the second groove on the valve, not the lowest groove as has been pointed out. Should I just remeasure all of the valves installed height in each cylinder and do it with the lock in the correct groove? Or just redo #1 with the lock in the correct grove and then recheck the valve spring pressures?

 

[Kahuna]

As shown, Gordon, use a scale & a drill press to get a pressure reading & measurement.
Easy & cheap

 

[Ggmac]

Make sure NOT to use the Chevy oil o ring groove with a retainer ! It will not secure your spring for long .

 

[GOSFAST]

Hi Gordon, you're going to wind up needing some "special" valve guides (bronze) with our "adjustable" spring seat registers.

They are an "exclusive" here with us and solve ANY desired spring hgt setting. You can "stack" as many as 6 (.060") shims under the springs if necessary!

The main reason we tell all our own customers to avoid "at any cost" using Chevy valves in these Flatties is due to the issues you are experiencing! If you need longer valves simply use some lash caps with the OEM length Flathead valves! This maintains the required correct spring hgts!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I'll say this one last time, if you end up using those "progressive-wound" springs get them installed the correct way?? Here's a shot of our "adjustable-spring-seat-registers", custom made here in-house!

 

[GordonC]

Gary I fully intend to install the springs the correct way. It was the whole reason I got into pulling everything out after you mentioned it. I never said otherwise? Happy to consider the bronze guides and the spring seat registers. If you would like we can take that discussion offline via email. My email address is gordon_cail@yahoo.com (underscore between first and last name)

I have sunk a lot of money into this motor and before I keep spending good money after bad I would prefer to use what I have, if practical. Many of the books we use for reference on flatheads note using the 1.5 inch chevy valves and that is why I have what I have. I understand your position on them, but they are what I have currently.

 

[cas3]

it sure is easy to sink money into ol flatheads! , but they sure are cool

 

[Ol' Ron]

I wonder just what cam your using? The chevy valve is longer than the ord valve and is used oNLY when installing a hi lift cam. You also would have to remove some material from the top of the guide to get at the adjusting nut on the lifter.
Now back to the chevy valve with the two groves. How many of you have used the upper grouve and had a problem, or dod somebody just say it doesn't work. I've used the upper grouve a number of times, and so fare their still running. Just "Fake news". Yes an old scale and a stop in a drillpress will check all the springs in a hurry. I can see why is easier and cheaper to install a SBC here, with all this miss information

 

[flatjack9]

Ol Ron, have you installed springs in the second groove with the shorter style springs? I don't see how that would work. Your probably going to have pretty high spring pressures and possibly coil bind.
PS: see next post.