Rebuiling 2-tooth steering sector

G

Gold Digger

Well-known member
I know this job has been discussed on here before. My sector is getting close to the point of being rebuilt in the near future. I know I will need a new sector shaft and a new steering worm plus all the other parts that go with a rebuild. I guess my biggest question is should I go with a new sector housing with needle bearings or stay with the original housing with bushings. Is there a big difference in the steering ability using the needle bearings and do they hold up very well. New parts are supposed to be available in May so I want to order the right parts for the right way to go on this project. All so does the new sector shaves hold up with needle bearing running on them instead brass bushings? I like the lip seal thats on the new sector housings with needle bearings.
 
I think the important part is the lip seal, and to make sure you have a good seal to the sector shaft a new shaft might be in order. Having said that, I'd probably wait until I tore down the old one to see the condition of the worm and sector (new gears are not cheap!). You can certainly pre-order bearings races. The worm is not at all easy to get onto the steering shaft, so if you really want to replace the worm you should consider one already installed on the shaft.

My experience may be unusual, but I've had to replace sector shaft and gears but not worm gears.
 
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Gold Digger said:
I know this job has been discussed on here before. My sector is getting close to the point of being rebuilt in the near future. I know I will need a new sector shaft and a new steering worm plus all the other parts that go with a rebuild. I guess my biggest question is should I go with a new sector housing with needle bearings or stay with the original housing with bushings. Is there a big difference in the steering ability using the needle bearings and do they hold up very well. New parts are supposed to be available in May so I want to order the right parts for the right way to go on this project. All so does the new sector shaves hold up with needle bearing running on them instead brass bushings? I like the lip seal thats on the new sector housings with needle bearings.
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If they are on the shelves by May, I will be surprised. The May target is the 5th or 6th time a date has been given, -only to be pushed out.

With regard to the Sector Roller Bearings vs. the Bushings, I have disassembled more than a few because of bearing damage to the Sector shaft because of improper use of a Roller Bearing in this application. If the Bushings are used and properly sized (i.e.: -with a Hone and not a Reamer), then the overall surface area of contact is much superior to the small surface area of a Needle Bearing. A Roller Bearing is designed for high(er) speed rotations such as a Rear Differential Bearing, a Rear Hub Bearing, etc. Shafts that have limited rotation amounts but higher loads use a Bushing. Stick with a Bushing that is fitted to the Sector Shaft (0.0005" per side and it will not leak gearbox lube and be remarkably smooth to steer.
 
I go with Brent here. As I see it, the problem with needle rollers in that application is that the steering is, for the vast majority of the time, in the straight ahead position or close to it. As we drive along a straight road, we are constantly moving the wheel back and forth a small amount to correct the car's wandering (mostly due to the construction of the tyres). This constant moving back and forth a small amount means that the needles are not rolling very far and wear grooves in the housing and on the sector shaft. That does not happen with bushes.
IMO, the needle roller conversion is yet another poorly conceived modification - well intentioned but a failure.
 
I too agree that using bushings as Henry did is best. I have found that the repro sectors are not hardened as deep as Henry's and this allows roller bearing damage to the sector.
 
Needle bearings have been used for decades in U-joints with good reliability. I think their problems in this case is the quality of the parts aren't what they should be. Needles last better with grease than oil so that's another issue.
 
Thinks guys for the opinions, My biggest concern was the use of needle bearings. I wondered how the sector shaft held up with needle bearings. We may be waiting for a long time for sector shaves. Also it seems like the lip seal sets the bearings closer two gather and would cause wear to develop or show up sooner than with the bearings or bushings spaced farther apart on the shaft.
 
Decades ago we had an older gentleman that was a Ford dealership service manager in the 1930's. He claimed Ford experimented with sector shaft needle bearings but stayed with bushings. As Brent mentioned needle bearing usage was primarily for continuous movement. Years ago I tried the needle bearing housing and didn't like it because it was sloppy on tolerance as the needles did not fit tight like the bushing.

BTW, what are "shaves" relative to this?
 
U-joint bearings don't move all that much if you think about it. The movement is in a relatively short arc depending on how far off center the movement is in any given suspension position. I worked on main rotor systems that have needle bearings for the flapping hinges and they didn't move much either since the rotors only cone up a few degrees in flight. Eventually they would wear out but they had 16-tons of centrifugal force on them at full rpm so it's to be expected. U-joints have the force of torque on them in service plus they take a hell of a beating in crappy conditions but still manage to last a long time. The bearing rollers and shaft or races have to be very hard on the surfaces to last. If they aren't hard, they won't last.
 
rotorwrench said:
U-joint bearings don't move all that much if you think about it. The movement is in a relatively short arc depending on how far off center the movement is in any given suspension position. I worked on main rotor systems that have needle bearings for the flapping hinges and they didn't move much either since the rotors only cone up a few degrees in flight. Eventually they would wear out but they had 16-tons of centrifugal force on them at full rpm so it's to be expected. U-joints have the force of torque on them in service plus they take a hell of a beating in crappy conditions but still manage to last a long time. The bearing rollers and shaft or races have to be very hard on the surfaces to last. If they aren't hard, they won't last.
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Aren't most Universal Joints made out of cast iron? I think many mid 1950s-70s yokes were not forged even on the yoke. The non-severe duty joints of today appear to be soft also. I know when they are not properly lubricated, we tend to see the ribs formed on the pinions. So why did they not use bushings on those??
 
I've noticed that the newer OEM ones last longer than they did back in the 50s to 70s time frame. The yokes always look cast but who knows. Cast iron is a lot better now than it used to be. Lathe beds and mill tables are cast but their process is generally better than the average cast iron car part.

I've heard that the reproduction Lincoln type U-joints that are marketed for torque tube drives in early Fords, don't last well either. Most folks just use the bushing kits along with a new yoke for overhaul now days. I figure the needle rollers are soft on the Lincoln types. You never know where or how this stuff is made these days.
 
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