Rear spring center bolt problem

3

30coupeguy

Member
The rear spring center bolt has broken off and the remaining part of the bolt that is showing thru the spring is off center about half of the bolt width.
Can the bolt be replaced without taking off the body, is there an easier way?
I do not own any type of spring clamps, etc. that I see reference to on other posts re: rear springs.
I will appreciate any comments.
Thanks
Burt
 
I have seen a body with a hole it it where someone did just that. Drilled a 3/4" hole and pounded a new center bolt through the spring for a quick fix.
 
30coupeguy said:
The rear spring center bolt has broken off and the remaining part of the bolt that is showing thru the spring is off center about half of the bolt width.
Can the bolt be replaced without taking off the body, is there an easier way?
I do not own any type of spring clamps, etc. that I see reference to on other posts re: rear springs.
I will appreciate any comments.
Thanks
Burt
Click to expand...

Burt, when you remove the nuts from the U-bolts, this will allow the spring pack to release from the tie-bolt. At this point, with the frame up on jack stands and the rear wheels off, you can SLOWLY lower the rear end assembly down out of the crossmember. It is feasible to leave the main leaf still attached to the spring hangers (shackles) and then install a new tie-bolt thru all of the leaves and then start tightening the nut from the bottom. That really is NOT a safe way to do it, but it can be done. Just be forewarned that it can also be deadly. Once the spring leaves are back aligned, you can re-install in the crossmember. Just make sure the square head of the tie-bolt is in alignment with the square hole in the rear crossmember. Good luck, and please be careful.


.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
Burt, when you remove the nuts from the U-bolts, this will allow the spring pack to release from the tie-bolt. At this point, with the frame up on jack stands and the rear wheels off, you can SLOWLY lower the rear end assembly down out of the crossmember. It is feasible to leave the main leaf still attached to the spring hangers (shackles) and then install a new tie-bolt thru all of the leaves and then start tightening the nut from the bottom. That really is NOT a safe way to do it, but it can be done. Just be forewarned that it can also be deadly. Once the spring leaves are back aligned, you can re-install in the crossmember. Just make sure the square head of the tie-bolt is in alignment with the square hole in the rear crossmember. Good luck, and please be careful.


.
Click to expand...

I have done this by leaving the wheels on the ground, but "raising" the car from the rear axle/spring using an overhead gantry.

It is NOT for the faint of heart - and wear safety goggles.

I think today I would get Welders C-clamps and position them as "close in" as the spring will allow with car and axle lifted by the gantry (or jacks.) This before you remove the two U-bolts of course (they're the only thing holding the spring pac together.)

With the rear spring clamped close by on either side, you could then do a rear axle extraction in the usual manner. And THEN try driving the broken bolt out and replacing it without any more disassembly.

If that spring has slipped between segments (VERY possible) then you're forced into removing the spring with a spring spreader. Then move it to your workbench with a LARGE vise and CAREFULLY do compression to the vise and then "letting down" of the spring. Wrap the spring with chain or large ropes to control the spring should it "squirm."

Wear your safety glasses.

Phew. Not fun. Been there done that. When they squirm and you realize you survived unscathed from the "mechanical explosion," you're glad you took the extra precautions.

Joe in NH
 
Hi Burt,

It is always guesswork when trying to advise anyone on how to repair "unseen" Model A malfunctioning dangerous conditions from miles away, when one cannot see "exactly" what you have.

Furthermore, in not trying to scare anyone, but what you are about to try "could" be one of the most "unsafe" and "life" threatening repairs anyone can imagine for a Model A owner who has ..... or has not ever witnessed the immense forces created by incorrectly dismantling a Model A rear spring.

Whether you are an inexperienced person ...... or a pro who has done this a thousand times ....... if possible, it is never a bad idea to wrap at least (2) separate chains, (one on each side of the rear spring's center bolt), e.g. around the the top of the rear cross member "and" the bottom of the rear spring and secure both ends of both of these chain with a bolt attaching and securing the end links of both of these chains.

Also, if someone is laying on one's back, looking upwards, it is not easy to jump out of the way quickly.
 
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I would use a spring spreader on the first/bottom leaf (Now that I built one) after I got the other leaves out of the way. As Brent said, Jack it up SLOWY and gently let the tension off. BTW These leaves want to compress inward, not flatten out. Just so you know what direction the force is in. And while you have it out (All of it) check the shackles and bushings. They are easy once the spring is out and grease the leaves as you reassemble the unit. Two more things; I used a grade 8 (3/8 24) bolt with a hex head and I ground two opposing points off so it would fit the square hole. #2 These springs are dangerous! The are manageable, but like loading fireworks, you have to be careful! I'll gaurantee there is a model A er within twenty miles of you that will lend you a spring spreader, clamps and a chain. Good luck!
Terry
 
I must have lived a charmed life back in the 60's when I installed a 2-3" block above the top leaf in my '32 (big rakes were popular then, 590x15's front, 820x15's rear, dropped axle also) and just jacked the car up, one side at a time til spring was clear. Never gave a thought to what might have happened. FWIW
Paul in CT
 
1931 flamingo said:
I must have lived a charmed life back in the 60's when I installed a 2-3" block above the top leaf in my '32 (big rakes were popular then, 590x15's front, 820x15's rear, dropped axle also) and just jacked the car up, one side at a time til spring was clear. Never gave a thought to what might have happened. FWIW
Paul in CT
Click to expand...

Yup. 99 percent of center bolts are fine - but its the 1 percent which can kill you.

Joe K
 
Just please be careful...read a lot about what you would be doing, read the barn, get a well made rear spreader, chain the leaves up and you should be good. Working safe is the most important thing, it only takes one thousands of a second for an accident! Having said that, it is a do-able job...just take your time and if a knowledgeable model A'er lives near consult them. The operative word is "knowledgeable".
Brian W.
 
The spring is perfectly safe while attached to the frame section with the two U-bolt hangers, even with the center bolt broken. The safe way to go about the repair is to obtain a proper spring spreader. Install the spreader and spread the spring slightly. Put a jack under the rear axle assembly and remove the two shackles. Lower the rear out of the way and collapse the spreader and remove it. The spring is now no longer lethal . There is a slight amount of tension remaining withthe individual leaves, but certainly not dangerous. Remove the U-bolt hangers and remove the spring from the car and replace the center bolt. You can use a couple of C-clamps on either side of the bolt to make the job easier when putting it back together.

Suppliers sell the center bolt twice as long ad need be to make the installation easier. Once it is bolted up cut off the excess and peen the end to keep the nut from coming off. Be sure to square the head of the bolt so that it will go back into the frame correctly.

Tom Endy
 
Glad you posted your location .I'm sure someone will turn up with a Spring Spreader nearby.
I have 2 Ford Barners within 10 miles of me and a guy with a BB truck across the street,
and I live in Europe You never know who is nearby.

That's good advice to check the spring shackels and grease the leaves while you have it all apart.

John Cochran
 
I too would leave the spring attached and rebuild the spring with axle allowed to drop from the frame. Only if the bushings need attention would I remove the main leaf. 2 large c-clamps will compress the leaves to allow the center bolt to be installed. The leaves will probably need some grinding to smoothen them.
 
There is a slight amount of tension remaining withthe individual leaves, but certainly not dangerous. Remove the U-bolt hangers and remove the spring from the car and replace the center bolt. You can use a couple of C-clamps on either side of the bolt to make the job easier when putting it back together.
Click to expand...
Tom - you climb under that car and release those four bolts.

I've done disassembly of a complete unfailed 10 leaf cc pickup truck spring in a vise at my workbench. I used the vise adjacent to the center bolt and then removed the center bolt. I then started backing off the vise to release the tension.

I had the presence of mind (and never having done this before) to wrap 6 or 8 loops around each side of the spring in 3/8" nylon rope (the slippery kind)

About open 4 inches, the stack "squirmed" and I was glad for the rope - the wrapped bundle took off skyward, cleared the vise, and landed in a heap on the bench edge. And I broke out in cold sweat when I realized how much energy is still within the spring pac.

Now maybe non-truck 10 leaf springs are a different animal (Marco's spring chart tells us they are) but I would go with a conservative approach even on a roadster spring.

Sorry. Spring versus forehead - spring wins almost every time.

And a person is NEVER wrong when motivated by personal safety.

Joe K
 
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About a month ago, I pulled the transmission out of my coupe and I had to get the rear and the torque tube out of the way. I took the U-bolts off and disconnected the trans and other stuff and rolled it out of the way. Then I noticed the spring shackles were worn out so I had to build a spring spreader and remove the spring from the rear. I then pushed the bushings out and replaced them. Up until I got it out. I had no idea that the bushings were worn out. Beg, Borrow, or steal a spring spreader to remove and Replace the spring. I wish we lived closer, I'd lend you mine.
Terry
 
My take, sounds like the head of the bolt is missing. If it were me I would back the u bolt nuts off but not remove at this point, drive the remaining part of the bolt out with a tapered punch and try working the hole back to center at the same time. Then I would use a piece of rod just smaller then the hole with the end rounded over and work it thou the holes to line the leafs up. Install a new center bolt and draw it up. If the head still does not line up with the hole try jiggling the frame over till it does.
Even if you use a spring spreader and remove the shackles, once the spreader is removed from the spring and the spring is relaxed there is still a lot of tension waiting to spring out. Now there is nothing holding the spring together because the center bolt is broke. I would not trust wire wrapped around the spring at this point. You still would need to clamp the spring together to draw up the bolt.
It is a good idea not to fully draw up the center bolt unless the spring pack is clamped together, if it snaps you want the spring pack clamped together by other means. If the hole in the frame is good and square, you could install the spring get it centered, install the u bolts then draw up all the nuts tight, cut the end of bolt off and peen (don't for get to peen).
 
usually in this case a hard hat with a face shield (think of the things guys operating chain saws wear) is best, i dont want to have a busted jaw or spring in the frontal lobe...I wear perscription safety glasses underneath as well.

The tie bolts ive used on my AA are generaly way longer than they need to be so you can assemble the spring and then tighten it all up with the center bolt then cut off and peen over the remaining thread (leave enough sticking out to peen)

Thsi is a good time to properly clean, grind the wear grooves out, paint, and lubricate before reassembly.
 
Is it a good idea to offer Model A Forum caution & Model A safety suggestions?

In about 1957, one of our young employees bought an immaculate 1949 Ford, his first car, and wanted to check out a squeaking noise under the car. I saw his tall ratchet jack which hell pulled out of his trunk and assumed he knew something about jacks.

I left, but after a few minutes, I heard him scream from under his car after his car "rolled" off of the jack.

He was scared; but not hurt. However, he had removed one rear tire, placed the jack under the rear brake drum, the drum rotated, the car fell, and the top of the ratchet jack went clean through the top of his immaculate sheet metal rear fender.

I'm sure others witnessed many more possible Darwin Awards ..... but, even though some guys are very intelligent, many are just mechanically uninformed and will try just about anything.
 
Thanks to all of you. Your input is very helpful and appreciated.
I really am heeding the safety advice and am on the hunt for some one with a spreader AND experience.
I remember an eighteen old kid (me) back in the early 1950's listening to a man with a bunch of stripes on his arm telling me that once you pull the pin you had better have already figured out what you are going to do with the D... thing.
Thanks again, I will post the outcome

Burt
 
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