Radiator Shell Crank Hole Cover Install
- Thread starter Hunter
- Start date
Brentwood Bob
Well-known member
no. just the rivet. Bob
Hunter,
I am pretty sure when I removed the crank hole covers on a couple of 28 and 29 shells for replating not too long ago, they had flat washers on the back side. I might have saved one of both of them. I will see if I can find the old rivet and washer and take a picture of them and post it in this thread. There is no guarantee I will be able to locate them however. If I remember correctly, the washers were quite thin.
I think it might be kind of tricky to use the right amount of riveting pressure that is enough to hold the crank hole cover in any position and also not have it rattle or so tight it wont slide at all.
Rusty Nelson
I am pretty sure when I removed the crank hole covers on a couple of 28 and 29 shells for replating not too long ago, they had flat washers on the back side. I might have saved one of both of them. I will see if I can find the old rivet and washer and take a picture of them and post it in this thread. There is no guarantee I will be able to locate them however. If I remember correctly, the washers were quite thin.
I think it might be kind of tricky to use the right amount of riveting pressure that is enough to hold the crank hole cover in any position and also not have it rattle or so tight it wont slide at all.
Rusty Nelson
Brentwood Bob
Well-known member
on 1930, and 1931 shells I have there are no washers. Bob
Gary,
I don't understand the sentence "The tube rivit is then upset over the flat rivit". I thought there was just a flat washer on the back side, but you are probably correct that there are two washers used. So first you find a semi-tubular rivet with the correct head (which I thought was a brazierhead verses round head like you stated) and length, put the small lock washer over the end of the rivet and then the flat washer. Is this correct? The potential problem I see is trying to set the rivet right to allow the hole cover to slide, but not too tight or to loose. Did you set the rivet with a hand riveting tool and hammer? I have a radiator shell that has been replated that I need to reinstall the crank hole cover like Hunter is doing. Any tip or pointers would really help. BTW, do you remember where you bought the rivet. I assume it really should be nickel plated, but I don't think any nickel plated rivets are available anywhere that I know of.
Rusty Nelson
I don't understand the sentence "The tube rivit is then upset over the flat rivit". I thought there was just a flat washer on the back side, but you are probably correct that there are two washers used. So first you find a semi-tubular rivet with the correct head (which I thought was a brazierhead verses round head like you stated) and length, put the small lock washer over the end of the rivet and then the flat washer. Is this correct? The potential problem I see is trying to set the rivet right to allow the hole cover to slide, but not too tight or to loose. Did you set the rivet with a hand riveting tool and hammer? I have a radiator shell that has been replated that I need to reinstall the crank hole cover like Hunter is doing. Any tip or pointers would really help. BTW, do you remember where you bought the rivet. I assume it really should be nickel plated, but I don't think any nickel plated rivets are available anywhere that I know of.
Rusty Nelson
henry494
Senior Member
Hunter,
What year shell are you asking about. Tomorrow (Thursday) late afternoon, I will pull out an original, new old stock 1930 shell and take a photograph of the back of the crank hole cover to show the rivet. I fuess I never took a photo of the back yet.
From my memory, on two real nice unmolested 1928 shells I used on our Phaeton and Special Coupe had the crank hole cover attached similar to how Gary Karr detailed. But, I recall a flat rivet made of soft material against the shell on the inside, then a flat washer, then the tube rivet upset against the flat washer. I doubt I can get a photo of that. I'll check all my restoration photos and see what I can find.
Check back tomorrow night for a progress report.
Dave Lopes
What year shell are you asking about. Tomorrow (Thursday) late afternoon, I will pull out an original, new old stock 1930 shell and take a photograph of the back of the crank hole cover to show the rivet. I fuess I never took a photo of the back yet.
From my memory, on two real nice unmolested 1928 shells I used on our Phaeton and Special Coupe had the crank hole cover attached similar to how Gary Karr detailed. But, I recall a flat rivet made of soft material against the shell on the inside, then a flat washer, then the tube rivet upset against the flat washer. I doubt I can get a photo of that. I'll check all my restoration photos and see what I can find.
Check back tomorrow night for a progress report.
Dave Lopes
Craig Lewis
Well-known member
...To set the holding pressure of the rivet...
Find a piece of brown paper (like from a big grocery bag) Tear off a piece maybe 2" square and punch a tiny hole in the centre. Now make a single radius cut from the centre with a razor blade. Place the paper between shell and cover then rivet everything together snugly.
Now tear out the paper. If it doesn't all come out place a drop of penetrating oil on the paper and spin the cover around a few times till the paper smushes out.
This should leave the ideal amount of clearance.
If too loose, you now have a second chance to carefully snug it up.
Find a piece of brown paper (like from a big grocery bag) Tear off a piece maybe 2" square and punch a tiny hole in the centre. Now make a single radius cut from the centre with a razor blade. Place the paper between shell and cover then rivet everything together snugly.
Now tear out the paper. If it doesn't all come out place a drop of penetrating oil on the paper and spin the cover around a few times till the paper smushes out.
This should leave the ideal amount of clearance.
If too loose, you now have a second chance to carefully snug it up.
Ray in La Mesa
Well-known member
Also, a way I have set small rivets is to use vice grips. I start out real loose and gradually turn the knob to tighten just a bit more at a time. You can get a very precise fit this way. You can also make dies to fit the rivet head and other end that can be temporarily taped to the jaws.
Thanks to everyone that has replied so far. It is a 29 shell. I am confused about the placement of the washers and also the information concerning two rivets.
So is there one rivet that goes in from the outside of the shell and then a smaller one that is inserted form the back of the shell that expands the tubular rivet that was inserted from the front?
Also is one could clarify the exact placement of the washers I would greatly appreciate it.
Sorry about my confusion - Hunter
So is there one rivet that goes in from the outside of the shell and then a smaller one that is inserted form the back of the shell that expands the tubular rivet that was inserted from the front?
Also is one could clarify the exact placement of the washers I would greatly appreciate it.
Sorry about my confusion - Hunter
henry494
Senior Member
See my last posting and read carefully my statement about recalling something from my memory about a fabric rivet. New rule for me.
Remember I'm 55 and on some heavy meds; Do not rely on memory!!!
Here's what I came up with in my search for the crank hole cover rivets. I knew I had some originals stashed somewhere that I had plated many years ago, with the original washers in the same bag. They were from 28-29 shells. Those are in the first two photos. You can clearly see that the first washer against the back of the radiator shell was a lock washer just as Mr. Karr described, then a flat steel washer was installed, then the rivet was upset to hold in place. You can also see that the heads of these original rivets were quite round, not flat at all.
The next two photos are of the crank hole cover and washer and rivets on a new old stock 1930 radiator shell. You can see that this rivet is brass and not plated. That's interesting. The photo of the back side does not clearly show the lock washer that is installed against the radiator shell. I just couldn't get a photo to show this. But, it's there, right under a flat steel washer.
The next two photos are of a new old stock 30-31 crank hole cover with the rivet and washers attached, that was bought in 1991 from Dave Schaefer. What a stash he sold that year!!! Anyway, you can't see the lockwasher in this photo either, but it is there, right under that brass flatwasher. The 30-31 rivets were quite flat-headed.
This is to illistrate some original parts, and not an attempt to tell Hunter how he should do his crank hole cover installation. Hope my time spent was interesting to someone.
Dave Lopes
Remember I'm 55 and on some heavy meds; Do not rely on memory!!!
Here's what I came up with in my search for the crank hole cover rivets. I knew I had some originals stashed somewhere that I had plated many years ago, with the original washers in the same bag. They were from 28-29 shells. Those are in the first two photos. You can clearly see that the first washer against the back of the radiator shell was a lock washer just as Mr. Karr described, then a flat steel washer was installed, then the rivet was upset to hold in place. You can also see that the heads of these original rivets were quite round, not flat at all.
The next two photos are of the crank hole cover and washer and rivets on a new old stock 1930 radiator shell. You can see that this rivet is brass and not plated. That's interesting. The photo of the back side does not clearly show the lock washer that is installed against the radiator shell. I just couldn't get a photo to show this. But, it's there, right under a flat steel washer.
The next two photos are of a new old stock 30-31 crank hole cover with the rivet and washers attached, that was bought in 1991 from Dave Schaefer. What a stash he sold that year!!! Anyway, you can't see the lockwasher in this photo either, but it is there, right under that brass flatwasher. The 30-31 rivets were quite flat-headed.
This is to illistrate some original parts, and not an attempt to tell Hunter how he should do his crank hole cover installation. Hope my time spent was interesting to someone.
Dave Lopes
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Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
I just looked at my original spare 1928 and spare 1929 shells and they are just as Gary and Dave mentioned.
One thing that puzzled me though is why the inside of the 1928 shell has a thick layer of old grease and dirt covering it from the top to the bottom. Would antifreeze and dirt look like dirt and grease? I wouldn't think so, but can't figure out how grease would get all over the inside of the shell.
One thing that puzzled me though is why the inside of the 1928 shell has a thick layer of old grease and dirt covering it from the top to the bottom. Would antifreeze and dirt look like dirt and grease? I wouldn't think so, but can't figure out how grease would get all over the inside of the shell.
Brentwood Bob
Well-known member
sorry for the incorrect info. i admit i didn't look. glad others took the time. Bob