Radial Tire Tubes

[JayJay]

Getting back to our comparison here:

The Hartford tube, which is marketed as for use with bias ply tires weighs 2 lb - 9.1 oz.

The Snyder tube being discussed in this thread which is marked "Radial" on the stem weighs 1 lb - 11.8 oz.

The Snyder tube is said to be 100% butyl rubber, composition of the Hartford is not stated, but any significant density is not suspected. From this comparison then, it could be reasonably concluded that the radial tube is actually thinner than the bias ply tube. So short of cutting a section of each and measuring it, one would conclude that the statement claiming that radial tubes are thicker than bias ply tubes is not accurate.

Another compound advertised for automotive use is natural rubber. This link describes its properties for those who might be interested: https://www.petestirestore.com/Understanding-the-Basics-of-Natural-Rubber-Tubes_b_193.html

Could you not also measure the thickness of a folded tube with a dial caliper and divide by two to get wall thickness? Seems a bit simpler than inferring wall thickness from weight.

Regardless, it seems to me that the manufacturer might have the best idea of the intended and recommended end use of his product.

 

[nkaminar]

I don't have the details but the radial tubes I bought for my tires were thicker than the ones that came out of the bias ply tires. It may be that different radial tubes have different thicknesses and that different bias ply tubes have different thicknesses. While it looks like the Hatford tube is thicker than the Snyder tube, I would like to see 8EL measure a variety of tubes of different designations. Maybe he could get a government grant for a detailed research project.

 

[8EL]

JayJay, your suggestion would indicate wall thickness. But like all matter, which takes up space and has mass, their weight would suggest the wall thickness given that they are most likely the same material.

Nkaminar, so you say they are thicker, no mention of who's tubes they were, or how you come to this determination. Your comments here along with others in this thread would prompt me to suggest to you to have at it then, as it would appear that a government grant would be of interest to you.

 

[nkaminar]

Here is the tire pressure recommend by Ford from a qualified source: https://fortworthmodela.org/specifications/

 

[nkaminar]

My research grant came in.

Here is the qualified source for the thickness of tubes: https://www.treadworld.com/whats_the_difference_between_bias_inner_tubes_and_radial_inner_tubes/

Here is what the source says:

Radial tires are move flexible than bias ply tires. Tubes for radial tires tend to be thicker than tubes for bias ply tires.

Now that I have my government grant, I consider myself to be a qualified source.

 

[8EL]

Now that I have my government grant, I consider myself to be a qualified source.

No kidding, I sure you do!!! Truth is it seems one can search and find said whatever one is looking to have said from a host of self proclaimed experts....

 

[Rich in Colorado]

Now I'm confused. I called Snyder's yesterday and asked if I needed special tubes for the radial tires. I was told the tubes are the same. I asked then to clarify, can I use my current tubes for the radial tires and was told I could.

Are the radial tubes required or not?

Rich

 

[8EL]

Rich,
Yes, there is much conflicting information on this application. What I can tell you based on what I have learned:

Snyders Part # A-1506-19 | Model Year 30-31, for 19" diameter tires is marked on the valve stem as "Radial" although they do not specify their application on the web site.

JayJay reports here: found it in the Snyder’s printed catalog #324, page A-100 (I think that’s the latest) “A-1506-19 & A-1506-21 are radial tire compatible and are…”

Based on your response, you are installing radial tires? In that case, I would be installing new tubes which are rated for radial tire use to be safe. The fact remains that manufacturers do produce separate products for these two types of tires, and should be more clear about their intended use in their part descriptions. What vendors say from what I have found is they are often providing opinion and not necessarily fact. Radials and Bias Ply tires have different operating characteristics and I would be paring the tube type to the tire type for this reason. If you are using bias ply tires the Coker 86400 is specified for use with bias ply type tires.

In any case when installing new tires, just like installing new valve stems on tubeless tires, new tubes should also be installed with tube type tires....Hope this helps...

 

[nkaminar]

8EL, I agree. However, my friend in Santa Clara runs his radials (19 inch) as tubeless on model A rims. I think the rims should be in good condition to make the seal and not full of rust pits.

 

[Hitman]

I still haven’t seen the evidence that the tubes care which tire type they’re supporting. If you’re going to base tube thickness on this, you might as well cut the tire too to measure thickness and the material profile.

I was going to mention a tubeless conversion with radials, but didn’t think this group was ready for that discussion. I’ve done the conversion on other makes without issues.

 

[8EL]

Nkaminar, we already discussed this as to what one might "get away with", at length. Which truthfully anytime anything is used or applied for purposes outside of those intended by the manufacturer can be and often is dangerous.

Hitman, again the manufacturer's of these tubes indicate a distinction between the two, that should be enough to go on. I am not the one who made the declaration that radial tubes were thicker than the bias ply, but was looking into this possibility based on the mass of the two. From the products I had on hand this claim at least in this case was not based in fact.

The sound advice I offered to the other fellow that was understandably confused by all of this, I can readily understand and was seeking to clarify. I suppose that I have better things to do now, use whatever you want or not with whatever, and inflate them to suit your own fancy.....as the saying goes...nuff said?

 

[JayJay]

8EL, I agree. However, my friend in Santa Clara runs his radials (19 inch) as tubeless on model A rims. I think the rims should be in good condition to make the seal and not full of rust pits.

True enough. I borrowed the spare from NK’s friend when I had troubles, and it got me from Colorado to California last July with no issues. He had no issues either. He saved my bacon on that trip. I’ve also heard of others running 19” and 16” tubeless. Only if I had pristine rims would I consider trying tubeless.