Radial Tire Tubes

[8EL]

I can not seem to find specifications for tubes suitable for AMERICAN CLASSIC RADIAL - 475/500-19 WW tires.

Coker's technical help line told me that "although we say our tubes are for use with bias ply and not radial tires, it is OK" I Have a problem with that....

Universal Vintage Tire Company sells the same tire and lists this as a related item to them:

Description
475/550-18/19 Bias Tube
TR-135 Center Rubber Valve Stem
Intended for use with the following Bias Ply (Cross Ply) tire sizes:
525/550-18 (for wheels using center valve stems)
475/500-19
525/550-19

Yet they sell a tube for radial tires or bias ply for three and a half times more money indicated as such:


Description
500/600R19 BR-19 Radial Tube
TR-150 Center Rubber Valve Stem
Intended for use with the following Radial or Bias Ply tire sizes:
475/500R19 475/500-19
525/550R19 525/550-19

If the more cost effective tube is acceptable, why would I spend that much more for these?

Snyder sells a rubber stem tubes advertised as 100% butyl rubber for this application.......

I am sure that others have installed these tires on their A, what tubes did you use???

 

[Y-Blockhead]

I can not seem to find specifications for tubes suitable for AMERICAN CLASSIC RADIAL - 475/500-19 WW tires.

Coker's technical help line told me that "although we say our tubes are for use with bias ply and not radial tires, it is OK" I Have a problem with that....

I am sure that others have installed these tires on their A, what tubes did you use???

I have the Coker Tubes 'Hartford', never had an issue. Very rarely do I have to add air.

** Ensure you check the inside of your American Classic Radial tires for ANY inspection labels. They will cut your tubes. I hope Coker has wisened up and stopped putting them inside the tires by now.

 

[Hitman]

The tubes should be fine, they likely won't care if it's a bias or radial tire.

 

[mhsprecher]

The tubes for radials are different. I got the Hartford tubes from Coker. They would be fine if you take the labels out of the tires as noted above (those are my photos).

 

[JayJay]

Last June I got 19" tubes from Snyders. They are labelled "radial" in the catalog and also on the stem. They appear to be quite high quality. I don't have radials but would not hesitate to install them with radial tires.

 

[Y-Blockhead]

The tubes for radials are different. I got the Hartford tubes from Coker. They would be fine if you take the labels out of the tires as noted above (those are my photos).

Seriously? They may look like your photos but I guarantee those are my fingers. I took those photos while I was taken those damn labels out of my tires after the destroyed five new tubes from Bratton's.

 

[Hitman]

The tubes for radials are different. I got the Hartford tubes from Coker. They would be fine if you take the labels out of the tires as noted above (those are my photos).

How are they different, and what is the harm in using radial labeled tubes in bias tires and bias tubes in radial tires?

 

[8EL]

Last June I got 19" tubes from Snyders. They are labelled "radial" in the catalog and also on the stem. They appear to be quite high quality. I don't have radials but would not hesitate to install them with radial tires.
Yesterday 08:29 PM



What is the part number of the tubes marked "radial" from Snyders?

Attached are the tubes I bought from them....

 

[JayJay]

Last June I got 19" tubes from Snyders. They are labelled "radial" in the catalog and also on the stem. They appear to be quite high quality. I don't have radials but would not hesitate to install them with radial tires.
Yesterday 08:29 PM



What is the part number of the tubes marked "radial" from Snyders?

Attached are the tubes I bought from them....

That’s what I bought. Mine are marked “radial” on the side of the valve stem.

I thought the catalogue stated that they were radial compatible. Either my memory fails me (not the first time) or they’ve changed the catalog. Maybe it’s the printed catalog, I don’t have it handy. But check the valve stem.

EDIT: found it in the Snyder’s printed catalog #324, page A-100 (I think that’s the latest) “A-1506-19 & A-1506-21 are radial tire compatible and are…”

 

[8EL]

Yes, mine say "radial" on the stem as well, thank you for bringing this to my attention. They look like nice tubes and are reasonably priced. Are you listening here Snyders?, much confusion could have been avoided here had you stated that they were radial tubes in your part description.....

Mounted a couple today and am not happy with the brown marks in the sidewalls that will not clean up by normal means...see pics.... Has anyone else had this problem? How was it corrected, or was it? These tires were stored individually and the plastic shipping wrapper was just removed this morning....

 

[nkaminar]

8EL, see your other post, https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342243

 

[nkaminar]

The radials flex more than the bias ply tires. The radial tubes are more heavy construction to accommodate the added flexing.

Most radial tires are under inflated. This adds to the flexing and will cause the tires to run too hot. I know that the tires show a tire pressure of 35 psi, but, in my opinion, they should be run at a higher tire pressure. The pressure will depend on your body style and the load that you carry around. The tires should be warm to the touch and not hot after a run of about 30 minutes at about 50 mph. If they are hot, they should have more pressure. With my heavy 1930 Fordor, with a heavy load of tools in the rear trunk, I run 45 psi in the front and 50 psi in the back. The radials still perform as radials should but with better handling.

 

[8EL]

The engineers who designed that tire rate its load capacity at 35 psi to be 895 pounds. That would equate to a gross vehicle weight of 3,580 pounds for the four which is about 1,100 pounds more than the gross weight of your car. 4 large fellows could bring it up to this gross, but ratings like this always have a safety factor considered into their calculations. You might just find it a struggle to make 50 MPH with such a load as the available 40 BHP would be spread a bit thin...

Do we know how hot? Sunny day, how hot was the road? You bring up a good point, but I would be looking much closer before over inflating the tire roughly 50% above its advertised maximum.

 

[mhsprecher]

Y-Blockhead - Sorry about that. I took pics and posted them on FB that are almost exactly the photos you posted. Looking closely, I can see that those are not my fingers! Funny coincidence!

 

[nkaminar]

8EL, The choice of what tire pressure to run is up to you. Undamaged modern tires, of which the radials are, can take 200 psi without bursting.

Warm to the touch is probably about 30 F over ambient. If your tires are getting hot, probably 60 F over ambient or more, you are damaging the tires, and tubes.

I am not sure where the 35 psi or load rating came from or whether they are related. It may be that the 35 psi came from the recommended tire pressure for the bias tires. By the way, Ford recommended 40 psi under certain circumstances.

Tires can be damaged by running on them when they are flat. And those tires should be thrown away and not used.

 

[8EL]

I suppose we would not want tires bursting, not sure what data would substantiate your claim here. I can take schedule 40 water pipe normally meant for pressures of 100 PSIG or less, and use it on hydraulic systems with 1200 PSIG relief settings and get away with it. I recall a hydraulic shell straightening tool at Firetrol Corp that ran this way for years.....But that did not make it right, or safe. The pressure load rating relationship comes from the advertised engineering specifications for these tires...

Most of us can touch 120 DegF but not leave our hand on the surface. My point would be that on a hot summer day this temperature could be easily considered normal on a properly inflated tire.

 

[Hitman]

I think there’s a lot of unsubstantiated claims in this thread. I asked how radial and bias tubes are different? People say “they are” or they’re thicker. Why would a thicker tube make it radial friendly? Generally thicker is just more resistant to puncture. Some say radials flex more, but the 19” radials referenced here don’t flex anymore than bias from what I’ve seen. Flex typically has more to do with sidewall construction and not the radial or bias type, along with pressures.

 

[8EL]

I agree with Hitman, and was calling attention to it, anyone can make any claim they may, but that does not make it factual. I always try to support claims with reference to factual data from qualified sources. Always look for engineering data from manufacturers or accredited testing laboratories.

This said the sidewall of any tire flexes in use. On any tire if it is underinflated it will flex more and generate heat and shorten the life of the tire. Radial tires incorporate steel belting to increase overall sidewall strength and are designed to flex more than bias (nylon/rayon) ply tires. This provides for their characteristic improved ride and handling.

I have my own questions surrounding the application of radial tires utilizing tubes. Radials were designed as tubeless tires which have different operating characteristics than tube type tires, perhaps this is responsible in part for their (tubes) intended application? Case in point, Snyders sells a 16" tube that specifically denotes "not for use in radial tires", yet offer a 19" tube that would lead you to think they are meant for bias ply, but do not exclude radials. But as JayJay, points out those tubes are marked "radial" on the stems.

As far as the claim goes that they are thicker, lets check that... I have a new Hartford tube, and one of Snyders tubes (previously illustrated in this thread). When I get the chance I will weigh each on a refrigerant charging scale able to read down to .01 ounce, and report back my findings. The Hartford has a different stem cap so what I will do is remove both the cap and core during the test. My point here would be that we are going to declare the Snyder tube as a meant for "radial" and the Hartford (Coker 8640), which was bought as a component for a bias ply tire, to be considered as such. If there is a difference in wall thickness than it will show here.

 

[nkaminar]

From a tire engineer who would be considered an expert and qualified source, the burst pressure for a tire is around 200 psi. See https://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/6617-the-burst-pressure-of-a-tire-is-about-200-psi/.

However, if the tire is damaged it could be much less. Most tires get damaged when the tire hits a curb or pot hole or is run flat, where the rim cuts into the tire sidewall. That is from my research about how tires get damaged and personal experience.

 

[8EL]

Getting back to our comparison here:

The Hartford tube, which is marketed as for use with bias ply tires weighs 2 lb - 9.1 oz.

The Snyder tube being discussed in this thread which is marked "Radial" on the stem weighs 1 lb - 11.8 oz.

The Snyder tube is said to be 100% butyl rubber, composition of the Hartford is not stated, but any significant density is not suspected. From this comparison then, it could be reasonably concluded that the radial tube is actually thinner than the bias ply tube. So short of cutting a section of each and measuring it, one would conclude that the statement claiming that radial tubes are thicker than bias ply tubes is not accurate.

Another compound advertised for automotive use is natural rubber. This link describes its properties for those who might be interested: https://www.petestirestore.com/Understanding-the-Basics-of-Natural-Rubber-Tubes_b_193.html