Pulling oil pan

J

JBohannon

Senior Member
For the first time I am pulling model a oil pan. I have a bad rear seal leak and think my bearings may be worn out. I am asking about the oil pump. Can I pull pan without the pump dropping. If so I plan to just see what problems I have and go from there. Any advice ?
 
To keep the oil pump from dropping down, use this handy dandy retainer available from your favorite model a parts supplier. It screws into the port centered on the right side of the block just above the oil pan.
 

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JBohannon said:
For the first time I am pulling model a oil pan. I have a bad rear seal leak and think my bearings may be worn out. I am asking about the oil pump. Can I pull pan without the pump dropping. If so I plan to just see what problems I have and go from there. Any advice ?
Click to expand...

About third way up the side of the block, above pump, on outside of block there is (or should be) a small hole with a fastener . This fastener is screwed in against the pump housing stem. This holds the pump while you remove pan. If you just have a plug in that hole, the suppliers sell a special screw with nut for this purpose. Or just locate a proper thread stud and use that for the job. Then if you want pump out, unscrew stud that's holding pump. Otherwise, the spring below the pump, holds it up into place when pan is on.
Hm, Carl types faster and has a pretty pic also...lol
 
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CarlG said:
To keep the oil pump from dropping down, use this handy dandy retainer available from your favorite model a parts supplier. It screws into the port centered on the right side of the block just above the oil pan.
Click to expand...

I wish my block had a port... I would imagine without a port, one might wire up the pump and when the pan pump is in place, slowly pull the wires..
 
oil pump is a piece of cake, but your leak could be a problem ,these old girls had drips ,you can live with a drip but not with a puddle ,when you get her pants off check the rear main cap drain tube make sure its tight in the cap , also these bearings are poured babbitt ,so you need to adjust the paper thin shims on the caps , plastic gauge is the best way to do this in chassis
 
joe 1950 said:
oil pump is a piece of cake, but your leak could be a problem ,these old girls had drips ,you can live with a drip but not with a puddle ,when you get her pants off check the rear main cap drain tube make sure its tight in the cap , also these bearings are poured babbitt ,so you need to adjust the paper thin shims on the caps , plastic gauge is the best way to do this in chassis
Click to expand...


In addition, make sure the drain tube is not plugged with debris or Babbitt slag. Best to remove it and blow air through it. If it is plugged it can cause a leak.

Another thing to check is the oil pan breather. This is the tube where you pour oil into the engine. If the cap is blocked it will create oil pressure in the pan and pour oil out the back main. It is often blocked by people jamming Brillo pads or steel wool into the cap thinking they are adding a filter.

One owner I know purchased a chrome cap from a hot rod shop that was completely closed. His rear main poured oil like spigot. When we removed it the oil pour stopped.

Tom Endy
 
Bohannon,
Quick tip, just run a 1/8" pipe die, down a 5/16" SAE bolt & it will spin in with your fingers, to lock the oil pump in. Just snug it up a little & when you're done, take it out & put the little pipe plug back in.
I did this on mine & found out the rebuilder peened the oil pump locating dowel over, so the pump wouldn't fall out, CUZ if the pump falls out, it screws up your TIMING ! (OH HORRORS !)
Bill W.
 
JBohannon said:
For the first time I am pulling model a oil pan. I have a bad rear seal leak and think my bearings may be worn out. I am asking about the oil pump. Can I pull pan without the pump dropping. If so I plan to just see what problems I have and go from there. Any advice ?
Click to expand...

If you would like to take pictures and report on progress I'm all eyes....

I have bought all the gaskets, retainers, etc etc to do this job but cannot take the first step.....

My engine leaves about a 4" puddle after every drive......
 
How many quarts of oil do you put in after an oil change? If you're putting in more than 4 quarts, this could be the source of your oil leak.
 
mshmodela said:
I wish my block had a port... I would imagine without a port, one might wire up the pump and when the pan pump is in place, slowly pull the wires..
Click to expand...





Your's doesn't have the 'port' ? Is it an early '28 ? I've not seen one. But, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Does yours have the early oil pan ?
 
I have been keeping engine oil to a little over half full on dipstick. Thanks everyone for the help I will keep everyone informed on my progress. Real Curious as to what my engine condition is on the bottom end.
 
After having taken the oil pan off, I have found it almost impossible to address the rear main. After asking about it here, it seems that the best solution is to make a tool. I can't believe someone doesn't sell something commercially (and maybe they do) but I have never found anything.

After you adjust the main bearings, dropping the pan will seem like child's play. If you don't remove the rear main and put everything in order you will most likely not do much good as far as the leaking problem. (you could find something obvious and easy but that is unlikely) If you attempt this in the car you would do yourself a lot of good by hooking up with a club with a few knowledgeable wrench turners.

I have done a lot of work and this is so much of a hassle that I would consider pulling the engine and doing it on the bench before I would do it while in the car. I have not made the tool that was described by the folks here at Ford Barn so that might make the difference. Also plastic gauge seems to only work on fresh engines. Babbitt doesn't seem to wear evenly and so you get different measurements from one place to another, that is why I use the aluminum foil or just a feel method (you will run across these in a search).

When you replace the oil pan the splash tray will be empty and you will need to pour oil down the distributor hole to fill it. It is a great time check the dip stick. After you put it all back together and are ready to run, you might start it take it for a short ride and let it set for just a bit, then check the dipstick. That will be the oil level mark you never go over no matter what the dipstick says. From now on when you change oil you will never get all five quarts out and so you will know how full is really the correct amount. This has found dip sticks with full marks that are out of place. Your engine will toss out any extra oil and if the mark is wrong and high you will keep trying to fill it just to have a never ending mess.

Oil dripping is a problem that has plagued these machines for a very long time and much has been written on this subject. Search this and read, read, read. You will find links to some club sites that seem to have the best and most complete information, they sometimes send you to a rebuilders site who will also have something to say.

The bottom line is this job of resetting the clearances for the mains and rods has to be done if you have Babbitt bearings, and when it is done your engine runs so much quieter and better. Figure it out and get it done and I'm sure everyone here will be happy to help as much as we can.
 
Model A's are just like any 84+ year old folks: they're all different, some healther than others.... My car, which does not have a recently rebuilt engine typically does not leak other than a few drops from the oil pan plug...
 
Marshall,
Refering to incorrect dip stick markings: Some old Datsun 210's had a part #, ending with an "H" above the FULL mark. Some wuld mistake the "H" for the FULL or "HIGH" mark! They would SMOKE & LEAK beyond belief!
Drain the excess, clean the plugs, pressure wash the engine room & in about 3 days driving, they were back to NORMAL! I, personally, dealt with 4 of these.
Bill W.
 
Regarding the dipstick, since many have been changed over the years it may not be known for sure if the right one is being used.

Once the oil pan has been cleaned and filled correctly [ tray filled] with 4 qts I mark the stick. Add another qt and mark it again. A little file mark or hack saw slash works just fine. Simple and I like simple.
 
I added about 3 1/2 qts last oil change....that's a little more than halfway between L and F on the stick.

Next time I'll start with 3 qts..

For me I think pulling the engine and mounting it on a stand is the best choice...it probably needs a clutch and pilot bearing anyway, if not much more...

And I just can't(or maybe I can?) imagine being under there trying to shim the mains with the occasional drop of oil falling in your eye...and getting a good seal on the pan gasket might be tricky...
 
Dropped the pan on our 28 Tudor last fall while changing a broken timing gear. The biggest problem was a typo in Les Andrews' book which stated the pan bolts should be torqued to 20 foot/lb instead of 20 inch/lb.

I should have known better, but did it late at night while tired.
 
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