PROPER Frame Paint

Roadster62

Roadster62

Well-known member
With all the talk of "Over restored" frames just what is the proper paint to use, gloss wise? Is there an ACME Proper A Chassis Paint #_ _ _ _ I can get from the local auto paint guy? :confused:
 
People seem to use all sorts of things. I have seen postings form people saying they used everything from Rustoleum to PPG Concept. The most important rule seems to be to avoid glossy paint. You also have to consider the fact that different parts of the chassis were parented differently, for example, the running board brackets were painted before being rivited in place.

Doug
 
Doug that's a good point. So if the running board brackets originally were black(dipped), then they should be a glossy black?.
Bruce
 
During the assembly process the chassis got dinged and scratched. They were touched up with proxlin lacquer spray. Sounds messy but once the body was mounted hardly anyone ever looked at the chassis again much less judged it's finish. Right or wrong, I like gloss black chassis and lots of cad plated nuts and bolts. Just my preference.
 
While I am definitely NOT trying to mess with your intelligence nor belittle in any way, have you thought about reading what published research is out there (i.e.: Marco's site mentioned above) and then think this through on how you could accurately duplicate it? Try it and see what you come up with! I think it will surprise you. I actually did this a few years ago as an experiment and the outcome will likely have surprised most judges who were critiquing undercarriages this year at French Lick.

If you are still struggling with this idea, mix up some bituminous tar (crushed-up roofing tar?) with some home-made Japan Black and mineral spirits, ...and apply it to some structural metal. You will need to determine the proper way that it would have been applied with a sprayer, and the likely consistancy. Next, dip some brackets in a tub filled with warm water and a layer of Black alkyd enamel paint and then force dry them, --and next use some cheap Black lacquer spray paint to mimick overspraying the scratches and bare areas. What you will find interesting is how the frame coating will seem thick just by the nature of the product.

THEN, one needs to determine at "what point" the chassis is being judged (time after the chassis was initially coated). I found the tar-based coating had a different sheen when it still had the mineral spirits mixed in, ...but the sheen changed as the solvents evaporated off. I should also say that my method had no real scientific basis for knowing the original consistancy of the frame coating, nor do I know exactly how it was applied. Therefore the results of your experiment may have a totally different outcome or look, however I am of the belief that anyone who needs to form an opinion on what it originally looked like should do something similar to my experiment first to have proper visual knowledge on the paint texture and/or sheen.

.
 
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Thanks Brent, I just thought someone would say 9 out of 12 MARC MAFCA award winners used XXXX Chassis Black and the Judges all love it and use it on their restorations.:)
 
Recently one of our members had his frame powder coated, instead of the gloss black finish he had it powder coated in satin black; it looks great, and looks much more like the original Ford finish; he was building a Speedster.

Just somthing to consider that will certainly hold up to the weather.

Ron
 
Thanks Ron, For the record I think powder coating anything but pattio furnature looks like crap, I wouldn't use it on a Chevy and never on a Ford.
 
Roadster62 said:
Thanks Ron, For the record I think powder coating anything but pattio furnature looks like crap, I wouldn't use it on a Chevy and never on a Ford.
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I had the wheels on my '31 RDPU powder coated gloss black. If I ever take it apart the frame will be powder coated. What powder coat are you looking at, something that you did in your wife's oven? I must admit that one local company that did "cheap" powder coating produced a product that looked terrible (and probably didn't last).

Charlie Stephens
 
When judging undercarriage I looked for three levels of gloss. Take a look at Marco's site to get the feel for it. E.G. Dipped stampings were glossy, forging a different level and frames a third (some feel four levels are better, btw. I like a flatter finish than most.

Brent, my experiments with asphaltum (diffent than asphalt) showed that the coating was water thin, and had almost zero build up. The mix I made for the carb also has amber, and rosin in it. When looking square on it is dead flat, but any angled viewing shows a moderate gloss...fwiw,jm
 
I asked the powder coater if there was any difference in the way different coaters did the job as some wheels look crapy and the wheels he does has a much nicer finish. He said powder coating material is expensive so some powder coaters only put on about 2 mill thickness so it goes furthur, " I put on 4 mill thickness". Another thing , the coater does his own blasting because he wants a rough finish to the metal so the powder coating penerates and adhears. He said a bead blasted serface is too smooth so don't go to the trouble to bead blast before bringing items for powder coating.

Have any of you been told this information ?

Ron
 
My unrestored frame has spots with paint, it is not thick, to see or touch.
I did a test piece( rear motor mount ) that hung on the cloths line for one year,
rain or shine, bird crap and all. I showed it to a well respected person on this
forum who said it was " very close ". It was painted with Rustoleum.

Ron..I consider your statement correct.

Dudley
 
Jim Mason said:
Brent, my experiments with asphaltum (diffent than asphalt) showed that the coating was water thin, and had almost zero build up. The mix I made for the carb also has amber, and rosin in it. When looking square on it is dead flat, but any angled viewing shows a moderate gloss...fwiw,jm
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That is fine Jim as it is possible my mixture was not the same as yours however I think both of us could make a valid argument that each of us are correct in our expectations. The 3rd paragraph down on page 16 in the Paint & Refinish Guide (3rd Edition) makes clear reference of this.


.


Ron, just like preparing a meal, every cook has their own way of baking the casserole. I personally prefer a smooth finish to apply powder to. IMPO, if it is top quality powder and the powder has been finely milled, it will flow into those tiny cracks & crevises to "latch on". Many industrial items are steel fresh from the mill that only receive a degreasing prior to applying powder. Those items hold up well, even in harsh environments. Something else to consider. Applying powdered paint to a piece of tin foil and then doing a cure will cause someone to really work at pealing it off. If the surface of tin foil is that smooth and yet the paint is still able to "tooth", imagine when it is applied to a slightly more aggressive surface.
 
I'm reposting the question again, hoping someone will understand that I'd like to know what PAINT looks best and would look like a showroom new 1930 Ford. :rolleyes:
Roadster62 said:
With all the talk of "Over restored" frames just what is the proper paint to use, gloss wise? Is there an ACME Proper A Chassis Paint #_ _ _ _ I can get from the local auto paint guy? :confused:
Click to expand...
 
Ron in Quincy said:
I asked the powder coater if there was any difference in the way different coaters did the job as some wheels look crapy and the wheels he does has a much nicer finish. He said powder coating material is expensive so some powder coaters only put on about 2 mill thickness so it goes furthur, " I put on 4 mill thickness". Another thing , the coater does his own blasting because he wants a rough finish to the metal so the powder coating penerates and adhears. He said a bead blasted serface is too smooth so don't go to the trouble to bead blast before bringing items for powder coating.

Have any of you been told this information ?

Ron
Click to expand...

I worked for a major manufacturer with a multi million dollar powder operation. I have also dealt with a smaller operation doing powder.
Prep is extremely important, sandblast or steel shot blast with a Wheelabrator.
we had multiple stage wash system, I seem to remember 7 stages. Experienced painters and a big oven. The mils were checked when done and recorded on the painter's record. Oven speed and temp were also very important.
Poor prep or not enough powder and it isn't going to look or work right.
 
I don't believe that you will get an answer to 'what is the best paint'. There has been any number of paints that have been used in restorations that have the correct look (in the eye of the painter) and probably would score well (if that's your goal). The best paint or paints for you is the one you can obtain, are comfortable working with, and you can get at least three levels of gloss. It can be done with PPG, and other high grade paints, as well as 'rustoleum' type paints. I don't think you can do it with powder, unless you can really work with the coater to control the thickness. (you want the manufacturing marks to show) You will have to look at the standards, Marco's site, high point cars, etc and make a decision on the level of gloss that is best for you and what you can work with...fwiw,jm
 
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