Preparing to remove studs

newshirt

newshirt

Well-known member
Is there a way to prepare rusted-in head and manifold studs for removal while still driving the car?

Sorry for the dumb question...

I want to eventually pull the head and manifold on an old tired engine, and I know those studs are rusted in because I've been working for a month to pull the distributor. Tried every trick in the book, including bathing in penetrating oil for weeks... nothing. So that makes me fear I'll snap head and manifold studs when the time comes.

Any tricks to prepare those head and manifold studs for removal at a later time... while still driving the car?
 
newshirt said:
Is there a way to prepare rusted-in head and manifold studs for removal while still driving the car?

Sorry for the dumb question...
Click to expand...

If you have the front-seat passenger open the window and lean really far forward, they will probably be able to reach the studs with a can of Liquid Wrench or other penetrating oil.

Doug
 
One stud/nut at a time.

While hot relieve the nut so that you can get a penetrant can spout between the nut and the head. Fill annular space with penetrant. Then give top of stud/nut several good stout raps with a small ball pein hammer.

Retorque.

Rinse & Repeat ad-nauseum . One nut at a time.

Don't be surprised if after your planned dis-assembly your head shows a little warpage. You were going to have it flattened anyway, weren't you?

Joe K
 
Over the years have removed many. Never found a real easy way. Some times takes me a day to get them out with out breaking them.

Use a good penetrating oil not wd 40. let set for as long as you can. Tap suds on the top while trying to turn them back and forth. Go easy if that does not work use heat on the stud let it soak, in then use more penetrating oil and try again with hammer and twisting. Be patient it will work.
 
There isn't much that you can do untill the head and manifold is removed. After that I heat the studs red hot down close to the block and do the things that George miller said above. I use a pipe wrench down close but not touching the block to turn them out.
 
I agree, use a small pipe wrench close to the deck and tap. tap with a hammer.
Also a little bourbon, not for courage but for tears.
 
I used to work very hard at getting the studs out intact---- heating and penetrating oil--- try, heat again, now I just twist, if they come out it is ok, if they don't I twist them off, weld a washer and a nut with the tig welder and the stubs come right out, it's quicker and easy
 
I understand there are numerous threads on removing studs. I was hoping for preparation tips to avoid snapping them off when the time comes. I tried to make that clear in the initial post, but it probably didn't come out right.

I don't need tips on removing them.

I had just hoped there was something I could do to prepare for the day when I tried to remove them.

So far, I guess removing and replacing one nut at a time seems to be the best approach.
 
The advice given so far has been insiteful and seems to match the initial question.
Basically, Newshirt, you are in for alot of grief, and difficulty, and will be using all the ingenuity you can muster to dig into this motor. Since it is a runner there is hope and a salvagable block. Time and your sweat will make this a learning experience. Since you already know what to expect it sounds like a good winter project.
Bob
 
Be very careful about a pipe wrench ,or any one sided torque device, as that has far greater possibility of breakage. Double nut and use two wrenches, like a tee handle. Use heat and kroil as previously mentioned.
 
Hi Ray,

The last time I removed studs I never broke one. Former owner told me this Model A head was on for over 30 years.

I always carefully use wedges driven in the soft head gasket with a small ball peen hammer to lift heads .... wedges can lift 15 story buildings ..... even after lunch when everybody is full ..... so I never even though of buying a head puller.

After head removal, FWIW:

1. I took an ice pick, heated it on a gas range, bent 1" of the point 90 degrees, & scraped out the threaded crevice between the stud & block where rust & gasket sealer could seal against absorbing a liquid penetrant.

2. Next placed a head nut on each stud & tapped each stud downwards & sideways, & re-scraped crevices until crevices were clean.

3. Went to Wal-Mart to get some Play-Doh & to form a levee around each stud to contain Liquid Wrench, PB Blaster, & or Kroil & soaked studs by keeping them "wet" for a whole week.

(Without a Play-Doh levee, the so called "soaking overnight joke" really means soaking for (2) minutes or less until the volatile liquid immediately evaporates even before you leave the work area & close your garage door).

4. For a week, I applied heat with a Propane Torch, (with & without Liquid Wrench), mainly because of past sad broken stud experiences; hence for one week I patiently never tried to remove a single stud.

5. At the end of one (1) week, with medium force on a "solid-stud" wrench which does not bounce like a Stilson or pipe wrench, (while hitting the wrench lightly with a hammer to simulate the action of an impact wrench), all came out except for 3 or so.

6. Rather than apply more pressure on these (3) & possibly breaking same, I heated them , beat them, built more levees, & tried again until after a few days only one (1) was left.

7. Lot of other Model A work can be accomplished while head studs are taking a heating, a beating, & a soaking.

8. The last stud just needed a much larger hammer to shake it up, and more intense heat & cooling. It looked like this last stud sucked in Kroil like an alcoholic when the stud was heated & smoking, but it did finally come out. I think he got drunk & just gave up.

9. Cleaned block threads with a tap, installed all new "regular" studs, (not high strength studs), with heavy coating of Permatex "Anti-Seize" in block & on studs, reinstalled the Police High Compression Head, & torqued Bratton's Silicone gasket to 55 Ft. lbs. (Pistons were 0.125 oversized & worked well without hitting head gasket).

10. Block & head were dead flat. Six (6) years later, still no gasket leaks.

Hope this helps -- might appear impossible; but appears all studs can be trained if you know how to handle them.
 
Joe K said:
One stud/nut at a time.

While hot relieve the nut so that you can get a penetrate can spout between the nut and the head. Fill annular space with penetrate. Then give top of stud/nut several good stout raps with a small ball pein hammer.

Re-torque.

Rinse & Repeat ad-nauseum . One nut at a time.

Don't be surprised if after your planned dis-assembly your head shows a little warpage. You were going to have it flattened anyway, weren't you?

Joe K
Click to expand...

Seems like a plan. The penetrate would be subject to heating and cooling as you drive. Juice it up, drive it, juice it again up before you put the car to bed and repeat.
 
FWIW: Just a typical Model A head warping scenario.

1. Start engine, allow engine to reach operating temperature, then stop engine.

2. Check crankcase oil & find oil to look milky. (Few (4) letter words at this point).

3. Realizing it is a blown head gasket, immediately drain coolant while engine is "hot".

4. "Completely" loosen head stud nuts one at a time, in just "any" order while head is "hot".

5. Guaranteed to warp heads every time.

6. If stud nuts are tightened far over 55 ft.-lbs., Model A blocks can begin to stretch & warp where studs are surrounded by marginal amount of cast iron ................ and/or, old stretched, already stressed studs can be over stressed exceeding their tensile yield strength where one hears that familiar "pop" that causes a second round of (4) letter words.

Professional vintage mechanics & professional head shaving machinists with experience were fully aware years ago that to try to avoid head warping of flat surfaced Model A heads, it is best to allow engine to completely cool & slowly loosen nuts in reverse order as that of tightening head nuts.

Hope this helps some of the heads of Model A owners.
 
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Short answer not really.To remove studs you will need to get at them with
manifolds,head removed. Someone posted try an electric engraving pencil
on stud end,could maybe loosen up the rust joint before hand.
 
Has anyone sen the comparison list of popular penetrants being compared to a 50/50 mis of ATF and Acitone? It the comparison I saw is true, none of those will come close to the lower troque the 50/50 mix provides. Something like maybe 1/3 the torque to remove a rusted stud.
Hummmm? 50/50 ATF and Acitone. Maybe I will give that a test run myslf. Anybody tried this?
 
If you are into masochism, use any of the previously listed methods and enjoy.
If you want the block ready to machine for rebuilding, take it to a machine shop experienced in broken parts removal, hand them your credit card and, presto, you are ready to proceed. It should take them about an hour to remove 10 twisted off studs/bolts.
 
I put some ATF/Acetone in a one cylinder Maytag engine a few years ago but it's still stuck.
Most of the time I don't remove good studs unless the block needs to be machined.
If I break a stud, the welded washer and nut trick works great.
 
Although not a stud, my distributor set screw was rusted in (so much so it held without a jam nut). The experts here suggested soaking (I used PB Blast) and with a screw driver try some light tapping with a hammer on the screw driver (very light tapping)... I did and little by little with more soaking and tapping it worked.. Slow tapping I think really help my issue.
 
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