Powerhouse overcharging

pooch

pooch

Well-known member
12 volt positive earth.

Have the 3rd brush fully clockwise looking from rear.

Amp meter is still showing over 20 .

3rd brush must be working Ok, as if I move it anti-clockwise the amp meter goes off the scale with just above idle.

Am burning points in a few minutes.

Got a loaner analogue multimeter just now and checked output to battery.

Medium revs and volts is way high.. about 17-18 volts.

Is there any cure?
 
Sounds like you have some poor/ corroded connections downstream on the way to the battery. Or the battery has a shorted cell or poor terminal or ground connections. Without a good battery and connections the voltage and output will go sky high.
 
I would suggest buying an EVR (Electronic voltage regulator) from Tom Westenberg. I bought one from him and installed it on my Power House Generator and it works great. Well worth the investment. Just my $0.02 worth. Don/WI
 
What's the condition of the battery? If it's old and worn out the resistence goes up and it can't control the generator output like it should. When I first started driving my 29 Tudor I had an old weak 6 volt battery that was beyond it's useful life, and my powerhouse wouldn't adjust down, even on the lowest setting. That when I started making electronic voltage regulators for them. I wanted to make sure the generator output voltage always stayed within a safe level.

Do a hydrometer test on each cell of your battery and see if it's OK.

Not sure why you have a 12 volt battery instead of the correct 6 volt, but as Mike said, make sure all the connections in the charging circuit are clean and tight. Did you change to 12 volt coil, or add a resistor to the coil to make up for the added voltage?
 
Only had this A 3 weeks.

Had new 12 volt battery fitted when bought.

I assumed the powerhouse was converted to 12 volts, but upon reading here, it may not be?

I think I can cure the burning points after I get the charge rate down.

Would like to keep it 12 volts for blinkers and such.

It looks like an original ford 6 volt coil was fitted and it survived a 200 km drive with 17-18 volts, maybe more at high speed.

I am going to try an unresisted 12 V coil to test.

Will go down now and jump a + wire direct to battery and see if charge fixes.
 
If you jump the generator directly to the battery, you will bypass the amp meter, so you won't know the charge rate, unless you put an amp meter inline with the jumper wire.
 
tried this...

Changed battery to a known good one.

Cleaned earths and starter/cutout/junction box connections.

Same prob.

Jumpered an extra wire from cutout to batt and an extra earth from genny case to batt.

Funny thing, the amp meter still worked and showed a low rate of charge.

Remove jumpered wire and amps go off the scale.

Removed wires totally from cutout, just had direct wire to batt.

Volts start at 15 and creep up.

Maybe I should just fit a modern alternator and wait til I can get someone to look at this genny.
 

If you want to look for a gremlin in the generator, the only internal fault that could make it run so high would be a short between the third brush which feeds the field coils and the output brush which goes to the cutout. Make sure there is nothing causing the output to cutout wire to short to the 3rd brush and it's feed to the field coils at any point in the travel of the 3rd brush adjustment. I do think your problem is elsewhere, though.

I wouldn't be in a big hurry to try an alternator on the assumption that it is a generator problem. Your symptoms (high voltage) on an unregulated generator generally point to a wiring or battery problem, and it appears you have ruled out the battery.

You said you cleaned the earths (grounds up here!). There is a single bolt connecting the battery ground strap to the frame center cross-member. Did you disassemble and clean that frame connection? It is often overlooked and can cause problems. There can also be internal corrosion where the battery cable and ground strap terminate in their bolt hole ends and also where they are molded into the lead post connections. The generator itself also needs a good tight ground connection, which is through it's mounting bolt to the front timing cover.


 
Hi Mike, this car has an added earth to the starter bolt.

And I jumper cabled the genny body direct back the battery post.

The curious thing i still can't work out, is when I jumpered the cutout output direct to battery, the amp meter still worked and showed a moderate 10 amps at about 2000 rpm.

I would have thought nothing would be going thru the meter when jumped direct .

Tomorrow, will remove brush plate and check everything inside and out for shorts.

Which is the output brush?
 
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What would be the results of a 6 volt power house trying to charge a 12 Volt battery?
Are you sure the system has been properly set up for 12 volts? Could it be the wrong battery is in place?
 
As I am new to A/s, anything is possible.

I assumed that that this genny was modified, as it is obviously charging a 12 volt battery.

But, have I read here that the genny does not HAVE to be modified?

Just plonk a 12 V in and it will work?

I thought I read that you CAN fit 12 volt fields, but it is not necessary.

Or have I mis read?

Mine sure does look old and original.

I better wait for some response, I don't want to burn out the genny, as at least it IS charging and not dead......yet.

I have an old 6 V battery here I could throw in.

Will it hurt anything to try?
 
Latest experiments.

removed and cleaned brush plate, all washers, even sandblasted screws and holes in case.

No shorts in 3rd brush system.

All wires and brushes seem ok. Springs and brushes are moving freely in holders, all long enough.

Undercut and polished commutator.

No change.

Then made a jumper wire and screwed it to both earth brush terminals and ran it direct to battery .

No change.

I removed each earth brush in turn and ran it. No change.

( I did think that removing each brush in turn would do something).

Jeez, I had a 28 plymouth with hydraulic brakes/light steering/ more power, and none of this crap.

I am about ready to give up and throw a landcruiser alternator on it.
 
The powerhouse can put out over 30 volts as it is, so it will charge your 12 volt battery fine. Have you checked the battery condition using a hydrometer?

Do you have a good 6 volt battery to try. The powerhouse is a wonderful generator and I wouldn't get rid of it. I also never run a generator without a voltage regulator.

Connect the positive volt meter test lead to the center of the negative battery post, and connect the volt meter negative lead to the output terminal on the cutout. Set the multimeter to the lowest DC scale, like 10 volts DC. Run the engine and see if you measure any volts. You should have one volt or less. If you have more, then you have a bad connection or too light of wiring in the charging circuit.

Also put the volt meter negative lead in the center of the positive battery post and put the volt meter positive lead on the ground brush terminal. Again, you should measure less than one volt with the engine running. More voltage would indicate a poor ground in the charging circuit.
 
Pooch, Here's another thing you can try to definitely isolate the problem to either the car wiring or the generator: 1) get another good, charged battery and a set of jumper cables. 2) disconnect all car wires from the cutout output terminal. 3) connect that 2nd, good battery to an engine bolt (ground/ earth) and the cutout output terminal. Start the car and set the throttle lever at a very fast idle. Put a voltmeter across the terminals of that battery. If you don't have the excessive voltage problem, it's your car wiring. If you still do, it's the genny.

What Tom Wesenberg is doing in the post above is looking for a voltage drop across the wiring caused by resistance from connections or corrosion. An excellent test if you understand what it is doing. I still believe the generator is not the problem, so throwing an alternator with a voltage regulator at it may mask the symptom and make it run, but will not cure the underlying problem. Try the above test first to determine if it is wiring or the genny.
 
Thanks all for your input.

I ratted a landcruiser alternator for its same size belt pulley and found that the pulley fitted a ford alternator with a built in reg.

Just got it all going now neg earth . Ran out of daylight.

Tomorrow, will fit a non resisted 12 volt coil and swap the ammeter wires over and fit an exciter bulb.

At least , then I can drive it and cure other things.

I understand Tom's method for checking suspect wiring and I have tried another battery directly connected to block and cutout.

I even hooked up a 6 volt battery today, and it went amps off the scale and 15 volts same as 12 volt one.

I will want to put the powerhouse back on after I get to know it or find someone who knows what the problem is.

Tom, will my high charging genny burn out one of your evr's if I bought one?

I think I would like to find the problem before I spend more money on it.

After several days of aggro and genny off and on about 5 times, it is a relief to see start amps come down to a steady charge and volts pegged at about 13.5.

Looking at the powerhouse, maybe I can get a small alternator and hide it completely inside an empty housing with a bridged cutout on outside for original looks.
 
"Tom, will my high charging genny burn out one of your evr's if I bought one?"

No, The EVR will limit the output to a safe level.
 
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