Pod on Dash, R&I in place?
- Thread starter Jwawhite
- Start date
Jwawhite
Well-known member
Hello Paul, I sent you a message earlier.
I have a photo of the rear of the POD and I do see mounting studs. Appears to be nuts holding the POD to the dash. The clips you mention are for the harness behind the Assy?
Wiring is really FUBAR, one spot.... dash lights were wired directly to a hot lead on the light switch instead of to the rheostat.
The fuse area has a bunch of power take-offs like a buss bar but on 2 studs .....
But the wires have all been changed out from the cloth ones but it's all hodgepodge. The connecting Blocks have all been removed.
I do have a platicised wiring diagram of original wiring portraying the Blocks. Question: blocks power takeoffs? , wire across from ea other on the blocks for connections....?
I have a photo of the rear of the POD and I do see mounting studs. Appears to be nuts holding the POD to the dash. The clips you mention are for the harness behind the Assy?
Wiring is really FUBAR, one spot.... dash lights were wired directly to a hot lead on the light switch instead of to the rheostat.
The fuse area has a bunch of power take-offs like a buss bar but on 2 studs .....
But the wires have all been changed out from the cloth ones but it's all hodgepodge. The connecting Blocks have all been removed.
I do have a platicised wiring diagram of original wiring portraying the Blocks. Question: blocks power takeoffs? , wire across from ea other on the blocks for connections....?
Jwawhite
Well-known member
Hi Paul.
I bought a plasticized colored (is this pc?) wiring diagram which I'll use when I straighten out the wiring.
It's a bit problematic in that there are two harnesses, the stock one and the other for the FE 302.
The mess is all the stock wires have been replaced and hence no longer color coded. The FE Harness was never stripped down, I.e. wires that have no function in my car are just zipped up under the dash.
I spent a few hours under the dash looking at the mess and note all connecting blocks are gone, the fuse area looks like a direct power take-off of 6? Wires. Looking at the diagram I don't know how the key switch can handle so many hot leads on one pole.
It will be exciting when I get at it this Summer, God Willing ( is that pc?)
I bought a plasticized colored (is this pc?) wiring diagram which I'll use when I straighten out the wiring.
It's a bit problematic in that there are two harnesses, the stock one and the other for the FE 302.
The mess is all the stock wires have been replaced and hence no longer color coded. The FE Harness was never stripped down, I.e. wires that have no function in my car are just zipped up under the dash.
I spent a few hours under the dash looking at the mess and note all connecting blocks are gone, the fuse area looks like a direct power take-off of 6? Wires. Looking at the diagram I don't know how the key switch can handle so many hot leads on one pole.
It will be exciting when I get at it this Summer, God Willing ( is that pc?)
paul2748
Well-known member
I would take a serious look at the original wires to see how good they may be. may be time for a new wiring harness..
When I got my 54, the wires were a mess (already had a 12 volt conversion). A lot were original (cloth covered) and were in poor shape. Wires were cut all over the place. Decided to just get a new (aftermarket) harness. A very good decision. That was ten or more years ago, never had a problem since then. As you know, Ford didn't use fuse blocks until later in thel 50's?? That was another benefit of a new harness.
I don't understand what is a FE 302 harness. FE's were big blocks, 302 a small block
Quote: Looking at the diagram I don't know how the key switch can handle so many hot leads on one pole. It all depends on how many items are being used at one time.
When I got my 54, the wires were a mess (already had a 12 volt conversion). A lot were original (cloth covered) and were in poor shape. Wires were cut all over the place. Decided to just get a new (aftermarket) harness. A very good decision. That was ten or more years ago, never had a problem since then. As you know, Ford didn't use fuse blocks until later in thel 50's?? That was another benefit of a new harness.
I don't understand what is a FE 302 harness. FE's were big blocks, 302 a small block
Quote: Looking at the diagram I don't know how the key switch can handle so many hot leads on one pole. It all depends on how many items are being used at one time.
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miker98038
Well-known member
I'm also confused also about the "FE 302" is it perhaps a Fuel Injection engine?
Either way, that old wiring has got to near the end of its time. Even in wet Seattle where connection corrosion is more of a problem, even the under dash and taillight wires are pretty much toast from insulation break down.
I did my 55 bird (12 volt) with a Centech panel and a custom wire kit they put together for me. I've done other cars with American Autowire. Both were first class.
American is a bit pricey, but it comes with multiple lugs, connectors etc. Some also have plug in harnesses for other things you might need. Power windows, seat, etc.
They could probably together a a set up to mate a 56 with the late model fuel injection requirements. It would be worth a phone call to ask. The lack of fusing in the main power on many early cars (which you can sometimes mitigate with a fusible link) makes insulation failure or overload at the ignition switch (which you allude to) very possible.
Either way, that old wiring has got to near the end of its time. Even in wet Seattle where connection corrosion is more of a problem, even the under dash and taillight wires are pretty much toast from insulation break down.
I did my 55 bird (12 volt) with a Centech panel and a custom wire kit they put together for me. I've done other cars with American Autowire. Both were first class.
American is a bit pricey, but it comes with multiple lugs, connectors etc. Some also have plug in harnesses for other things you might need. Power windows, seat, etc.
They could probably together a a set up to mate a 56 with the late model fuel injection requirements. It would be worth a phone call to ask. The lack of fusing in the main power on many early cars (which you can sometimes mitigate with a fusible link) makes insulation failure or overload at the ignition switch (which you allude to) very possible.
Jwawhite
Well-known member
Thank you for the replies, Miker good info on other wire businesses.
Regret for the confusion, I meant Fuel Injection.
I'd like to install a stand alone harness for the FI but I'd need to install an earlier distributor and possibly change the wires at the TPS on the 302. Apparently I have an off year of the 302 94-95 that's different from other years. My strip down existing harness.
The car harness has been changed out from cloth and fuses with relays have been installed.
It's just a poor install. Will attach a photo in future.
Regret for the confusion, I meant Fuel Injection.
I'd like to install a stand alone harness for the FI but I'd need to install an earlier distributor and possibly change the wires at the TPS on the 302. Apparently I have an off year of the 302 94-95 that's different from other years. My strip down existing harness.
The car harness has been changed out from cloth and fuses with relays have been installed.
It's just a poor install. Will attach a photo in future.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
JW,
You need to ID what type of 302/5.0L they put into the car. It is EFI (compared to CFI-TBI), correct. It has an upper/lower intake and eight injectors?
Did the EFI harness have any ID NOS on a white tag anywhere? The ECM will have a code on it. Have you found where they hid that?
What IGN SYS did they use? Can you supply photo(s) of the engine.
As for loading the IGN SW, you would have fuel and IGN run directly off the BAT with relay(s) and fuse.
You need to ID what type of 302/5.0L they put into the car. It is EFI (compared to CFI-TBI), correct. It has an upper/lower intake and eight injectors?
Did the EFI harness have any ID NOS on a white tag anywhere? The ECM will have a code on it. Have you found where they hid that?
What IGN SYS did they use? Can you supply photo(s) of the engine.
As for loading the IGN SW, you would have fuel and IGN run directly off the BAT with relay(s) and fuse.
Jwawhite
Well-known member
KULTULZ, read an interesting article today in the Hemmings Classic Car magazine, April 2021. "Take an Old Mechanic to Lunch" Kultulz I see you on a lot of Ford Forums. The knowledge you have, I'd take you to lunch!!
Anyways, have spoken with companies that supply wiring harness's, have reviewed video's of taking apart harness's and have decided to redo the mess I have and try to make sense of it. Both '56 and FI wires.
I do have a plasticised '56 color coded wiring diagram and will rewire the stock, plastic coated wires correctly.
Looking at the FI harness it may have been stripped down but I do find one connection --not removed from the harness--in the engine compartment. Wonder why. Looking at the Plug/ECM does look some wires have been removed?
I've looked briefly at the harness and do not find the ID number band.
The ECU is an A9L, for a Manual Trans, but the car has an AOD (no wires going to it). The VSS must have been removed?
Be Well Kultulz
Anyways, have spoken with companies that supply wiring harness's, have reviewed video's of taking apart harness's and have decided to redo the mess I have and try to make sense of it. Both '56 and FI wires.
I do have a plasticised '56 color coded wiring diagram and will rewire the stock, plastic coated wires correctly.
Looking at the FI harness it may have been stripped down but I do find one connection --not removed from the harness--in the engine compartment. Wonder why. Looking at the Plug/ECM does look some wires have been removed?
I've looked briefly at the harness and do not find the ID number band.
The ECU is an A9L, for a Manual Trans, but the car has an AOD (no wires going to it). The VSS must have been removed?
Be Well Kultulz
Attachments
KULTULZ
Well-known member
Usually, on an EFI retro-fit, the ECM is re-burned to rid it of EMMISSION control circuits and just operate the fuel and timing (TFI).
The A9L ECM is the most frequent used for retro-fit.
You can modify the OEM EFI harness or they are offered aftermarket.
Can you post a few photos of the engine? It will help ID what you have hopefully.
THANX for the kind words. Now my head is all swollen.
EDIT -
Blind in one eye and can't hear out of the other ...
It is a 5.0L HO. The reason no harness tag is most likely it was removed/destroyed during the stripping down of the harness. The A9L is MT and makes it much simpler for a retro-fit using a non-computerized AT.
Schematics are available but it appears it was done correctly (from here). Did they include a MIL LAMP on the dash somewhere?
The A9L ECM is the most frequent used for retro-fit.
You can modify the OEM EFI harness or they are offered aftermarket.
Can you post a few photos of the engine? It will help ID what you have hopefully.
THANX for the kind words. Now my head is all swollen.
EDIT -
Blind in one eye and can't hear out of the other ...
It is a 5.0L HO. The reason no harness tag is most likely it was removed/destroyed during the stripping down of the harness. The A9L is MT and makes it much simpler for a retro-fit using a non-computerized AT.
Schematics are available but it appears it was done correctly (from here). Did they include a MIL LAMP on the dash somewhere?
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Jwawhite
Well-known member
Kultulz, there is a Check Engine Light and it does operate. I removed the EGR and before I installed the EGR Bypass the light did come on. Yes the EGR is important to warm the engine quickly but now that we live in AZ, it's just one more potential problem removed.
I note that different 5.0 configurations have different intake upper manifolds. I have no idea what car the motor came out of nor what year. I'd like to clear up those points but I don't want to remove the starter for the year.
I note that different 5.0 configurations have different intake upper manifolds. I have no idea what car the motor came out of nor what year. I'd like to clear up those points but I don't want to remove the starter for the year.
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KULTULZ
Well-known member
The EGR purpose is to introduce exhaust gases to the combustion chamber to lower combustion temp (NOX). It is fine for an emissions legal car but not ideal for a street driven performance engine. Usually, the EGR is eliminated with the ECM re-burn. But the by-pass kit is easier if not doing a full conversion. The eliminator kit will take it out of its' misery. The kit did not include a MIL eliminator?
Correct. The 5.0L went through a lot of developments/upgrades and there were several versions for differing applications. It is going be just like ID'ing a FYB. All Casting ID NOS are going to have to be found and recorded. Then you can cipher as to what is there.
Did the car ever go through CA EMISSIONS?
Where in AZ are you? I can tell you from the pics that you have a '94-'95 intake, but the distributor, and computer are earlier 5.0 (89-93). I know the EFI well, and have built harnesses from scratch and done lots of conversions if you are local to LHC, I can help you if needed.
Jwawhite
Well-known member
Kultulz. Emissions are not required on vehicles under 1973? in CA. In AZ it may be a later date but regardless there isn't a requirement for Smog Tests on older vehicles. The Smog tests are more efficient and less costly in AZ. I thought the EGR was used to warm the engine quicker by by introducing hot exhaust gasses into the intake system until up to operating temperature?
2dasand we now have a home in Sun City West. From your comments, thanks, the previous Owner subbed out the work and perhaps didn't realize how sloppy the work was performed. He requested FI for the 302 and from your comments, the mechanics? did some changes comparable to what Painless Wiring wants for their stand alone harness. e.g. Distributor change out and other items.
I've decided to stay with what's there but clean it up a bit. The car harness and the FI harness. What a mess will attach fotoswhen I get them.
2dasand we now have a home in Sun City West. From your comments, thanks, the previous Owner subbed out the work and perhaps didn't realize how sloppy the work was performed. He requested FI for the 302 and from your comments, the mechanics? did some changes comparable to what Painless Wiring wants for their stand alone harness. e.g. Distributor change out and other items.
I've decided to stay with what's there but clean it up a bit. The car harness and the FI harness. What a mess will attach fotoswhen I get them.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
That's good. Heard so many horror story's out of CA regarding EMISS.
I think you are thinking of an exhaust heat crossover in the intake that will warm the incoming mixture on a CARB or CFI engine. Not needed with EFI.[/QUOTE]
SOURCE - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation
You don't need or want it (IMO).
BTW - You were describing lose steering while I was restricted to COMPANY AREA. Did you see my follow-up post regarding it?
Jwawhite
Well-known member
Kultulz, I'm unable to do more diagnosing but this is what I've noticed: the steering box does not have play in it. However the steering Arm connected to the control valve does. Engine off, car on lift, person in car turning steering wheel, I notice the Stud movement as the steering wheel is turned left and right. 3/16"? each side. This is the grease area of the control valve. In the diagram this area has a spring washers, etc. I wonder if these items need replacement or if the internal shaft needs tightening. I have OEM rebuilding kits for both sides of Control Valve. But what a job it is to remove the Assy and rebuild it. Time is accounted for with the move.
dmsfrr
Well-known member
I've not looked for it but I believe there is an adjustment procedure in the Shop Manual. If you've already commented about it I missed it and apologize.
It's my understanding that some amount of movement at the stud to valve connection is normal due to the design of the 'assisted' power steering. Having the engine off may exaggerate the amount of play???