V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
Remember this one rule: SAME BLOCK...Ford, Mercury, truck or automobile!
Here is that oh-so-rare (hard to replace) Mercury oil pump 'pick-up' assembly that goes with that oil pan. DD
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PCV VALVE SYSTEM for 8BA with Early Intake Manifold
- Thread starter V8COOPMAN
- Start date
Remember this one rule: SAME BLOCK...Ford, Mercury, truck or automobile!
Here is that oh-so-rare (hard to replace) Mercury oil pump 'pick-up' assembly that goes with that oil pan. DD
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Fortunateson
Well-known member
I knew about "the same block for all!" company edict which makes sense except for the different block identification marks. Now that oil pump doesn't look familiar. If I use the Merc oil pan is it essential to use that pump or would theFord pump work OK? I do have the truck oil pan...
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
It's the pump 'PICK-UP' and the attached, round baffle that are the oddballs. These pics show how the round baffle fits snugly into the round hole in the MERCURY pan baffle. The pumps are essentially the same, physically. What kind of car are you putting this in? ALSO, what type of transmission are you going to bolt-up to? One more thing to remember....you can use whichever oil pan you choose, but you MUST have and utilize that pan's MATCHING 'starter plate'. DD
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Fortunateson
Well-known member
The engine will be going into my '32 5W. Have the starter plates for both engines along with everything else. Can the Ford oil pump be used in the Merc pan?
By the way I hade the extra Ford cam reground to a Isky Max1 twin by Shadbolts cam service here in Vancouver for a very reasonable price. I thought it would be better to save the Merc cam.
By the way I hade the extra Ford cam reground to a Isky Max1 twin by Shadbolts cam service here in Vancouver for a very reasonable price. I thought it would be better to save the Merc cam.
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
You MAY (or may not) have to trim that baffle in the Mercury pan to clear the Ford pick-up tube. You also should beware of the possible difference in proximity of the Ford pick-up with the bottom of the Merc pan. Do you know if that "Merc" engine does IN FACT have the Merc oil pick-up? If it does, I'd say that IS likely a REAL Merc engine.
Are you using an old Ford 3-speed trans? DD
Fortunateson
Well-known member
Been busy again but better late in replying than never...
I believe both engines have the same oil pickup but have to 2x check. The ****** is a post war truck which will be converted to closed drive. I need the main shaft and possibly second gear if I want to use my LZ setup. I've read pros and cons on this. Rear end is 3.78.
I believe both engines have the same oil pickup but have to 2x check. The ****** is a post war truck which will be converted to closed drive. I need the main shaft and possibly second gear if I want to use my LZ setup. I've read pros and cons on this. Rear end is 3.78.
19Fordy
Well-known member
V8 and Heard: You guys are a great team. Thank you very much for all that hands on research and posting a truly exceptional tech article. Taking the time to take photos and then your detailed and clear explanation sure makes this an exceptional piece of info.
You hit a grand slam.
You hit a grand slam.
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
The DIFFERENT oil pick-ups are each shaped to work with the different pan configurations for different applications, like Ford cars, Ford trucks, Mercurys….all use differently-configured oil pans. In fact, this list below from Mac VanPelt's catalog shows the number of different 8BA-type oil pans.
8BA- 6675-C Oil Pan (49-50 Ford V8) - Mid sump - horizontal drain plug
1BA- 6675-A Oil Pan (51 Ford V8) - angled drain plug
1BA- 6675-C Oil Pan (52 Ford V8) - Mid sump - angled drain plug - 2 side ribs
1BA- 6675-D Oil Pan (52-53 Ford V8) - Mid sump - angled drain plug - 3 side ribs
8CM- 6675-C Oil Pan (49-51 Merc) - Rear sump - stud reinforcement at bottom)
1M- 6675 Oil Pan (51 Merc) - Rear sump - w/o stud reinforcement at bottom)
AE- 6675-A Oil Pan (52-53 Merc) - Mid sump - rear drain plug - 3 side ribs
8RT- 6675-B Oil Pan (48-53 Truck V8) - rear sump with cleanout
8RT- 6675-D Oil Pan (53 Truck V8) - long rear to mid sump without cleanout
The Lincoln-Zephyr gear sets require their own, unique 2nd gears and cluster gears. DD
Fortunateson
Well-known member
That's a heck of a lot of oil pans! I have what came with each engine. I'll try to look at the Merc pan today.
I have the LZ cluster gears in great shape. Second may just need a little judicious filing but the main shaft has one tooth removed better than a dentist could do!
I have the LZ cluster gears in great shape. Second may just need a little judicious filing but the main shaft has one tooth removed better than a dentist could do!
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blucar
Well-known member
Excellent write up with a lot of work to solve a very simple problem; how to get good ventilation into an engine.
The one problem I see with placing the PCV adjacent to the oil fill tube is that in order for crankcase ventilation to work you have to have a fresh air source that is drawn through the engine and into the intake manifold to be burnt off in lieu of escaping into the atmosphere.
Placing the PCV so close to the fresh-air source will draw the fresh air into the PCV and not through the engine.
Placing the PCV into the manifold in front of the carb will create a better path/route for air circulation with-in the engine.
I like the PCV system that the '63-64 292 V8 truck engines used. The rear draft tube is eliminated in favor of a metal bonnet that fits into the block, a line runs from there to a location in front of the carb. The PCV screws into a hole in the manifold. Fresh air is drawn into the engine block via the oil fill pipe at the front of the engine.
I have attached a couple oCV system on my '57 T-Bird..
The one problem I see with placing the PCV adjacent to the oil fill tube is that in order for crankcase ventilation to work you have to have a fresh air source that is drawn through the engine and into the intake manifold to be burnt off in lieu of escaping into the atmosphere.
Placing the PCV so close to the fresh-air source will draw the fresh air into the PCV and not through the engine.
Placing the PCV into the manifold in front of the carb will create a better path/route for air circulation with-in the engine.
I like the PCV system that the '63-64 292 V8 truck engines used. The rear draft tube is eliminated in favor of a metal bonnet that fits into the block, a line runs from there to a location in front of the carb. The PCV screws into a hole in the manifold. Fresh air is drawn into the engine block via the oil fill pipe at the front of the engine.
I have attached a couple oCV system on my '57 T-Bird..
Attachments
Heard
Well-known member
Bill,
I think you misunderstand how this is plumbed. The air is drawn down through the filler tube vent into the crankcase, then up through the old original fill tube at the front of the block, across the valve chamber area back to the rear of the block, then up through the pcv valve, out through the spacer block and into the manifold.
The line from the fill tube at the front of the engine to the pvc valve is sealed. No way for the pcv to draw air anywhere EXCEPT from the crankcase.
Heard
I think you misunderstand how this is plumbed. The air is drawn down through the filler tube vent into the crankcase, then up through the old original fill tube at the front of the block, across the valve chamber area back to the rear of the block, then up through the pcv valve, out through the spacer block and into the manifold.
The line from the fill tube at the front of the engine to the pvc valve is sealed. No way for the pcv to draw air anywhere EXCEPT from the crankcase.
Heard
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
Fortunateson
Well-known member
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
Is this bracket with the two "U"-shaped slots the "reinforcement" that you're referring to? If so, that bracket is required as a solid and steadying attachment point for the bottom of the starter plate that goes with that pan. Starter plate versions are meant to match their respective oil pan types. DD
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blucar
Well-known member
Reviewing the original question; Early intake manifold on a 8BA type of engine and the accompanying pix shows the PCV system plumbed into the rear oil fill/breather tube, no front fill/breather tube. If the copper tube running through the valve lifter chamber is the intended source of air flow from the lower crankcase, I doubt if that pipe would have the capacity to ventilate the engine.
Some Early Ford V8 pans have a 'draft' vent located in the front left of the pan. This vent must be closed off if a PCV system is installed on the engine.
Some people maintain that a closed crankcase system, PCV, won't work on a EFV8 engine because the rear main is not sealed, thereby the PCV will draw contaminates through the flywheel/clutch area and into the crankcase/engine.
I am getting ready to take the engine out of my '36, so that I can take it down to H & H to have the engine freshened up. It has not been touched since it's last rebuild in 1960. It is my intention to drill/thread a hole in the front portion of the Offy Super intake for a Ford 292 PCV which will plumbed into the vacuum port to the rear of the second carb.
Some Early Ford V8 pans have a 'draft' vent located in the front left of the pan. This vent must be closed off if a PCV system is installed on the engine.
Some people maintain that a closed crankcase system, PCV, won't work on a EFV8 engine because the rear main is not sealed, thereby the PCV will draw contaminates through the flywheel/clutch area and into the crankcase/engine.
I am getting ready to take the engine out of my '36, so that I can take it down to H & H to have the engine freshened up. It has not been touched since it's last rebuild in 1960. It is my intention to drill/thread a hole in the front portion of the Offy Super intake for a Ford 292 PCV which will plumbed into the vacuum port to the rear of the second carb.
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JSeery
Member Emeritus
I'm not following this at all. No PCV system is going to vent more air than the size of the PCV valve and the connected tubing. Want difference would it make if the tubing is routed on top of the manifold or under the manifold?
Fortunateson
Well-known member
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
Fortunate......Ya know, way back there in post #16 of this thread, I asked: "Can you give me an exact model number for that Fenton manifold, or maybe a better description?" You've asked every question under the sun since then (which I've tried my best to answer), but I don't recall you helping me out (YET) with a better ID on that Fenton manifold, or at least a picture or two. I can't reasonably begin to help you with YOUR application if I don't know what we're working with. So, the ball's back in your court....again! DD