pcv on early ford?

B

britman

Member
I think I saw a statement a while back that a pcv cannot be used on an early (59A) flathead with the labryinth oil control. Is this true?
 
The main concern is the drawing in of UNFILTERED air from the clutch housing . Haven't seen a reasonable way to deal with that issue from the " it's OK " folks . This is even worse on non-vented early blocks like I use . Another one of the wonderful opinion based subjects here that ends in a can of worms .
britman said:
I think I saw a statement a while back that a pcv cannot be used on an early (59A) flathead with the labryinth oil control. Is this true?
Click to expand...
 
Provided the pan vent filter isn't plugged, little or no air goes thru the labryinthe in reverse-flow ventilation that relies on air-cleaner entrainment.

Jack E/NJ
 
Jack is describing the best way here . There used to be kits for the early motors that had a fitting you put on the air cleaner body and connected it via a metal flex pipe to the special cap on the filler tube . This is not a very aggressive system and will probably be fine . That said in my OPINION I feel the chance of sucking un-filtered air in from the clutch housing isn't worth it . Again I've never heard of a reasonable way to filter the incoming air there . Un-filtered air entering my crankcase ain't gonna happen here . Well at least not on purpose :D .
Jack E/NJ said:
Provided the pan vent filter isn't plugged, little or no air goes thru the labryinthe in reverse-flow ventilation that relies on air-cleaner entrainment.

Jack E/NJ
Click to expand...
 
IMO, a good method to add a pcv on a 59A is to cap off the forward verticle stand pipe (that leads to the pan vent), drill into the intake just above the pipe and install a grommet and the valve, and from there a 3/8" hose to intake manifold vacuum. I think some WW11 Ford flathheads used a very similar system.
 
WWII engines with PCV drew the vac from under carb via an adaptor with drilling into both manifold passages. The PCV was piped to this and was in turn connected to a fitting through the side of the manifold casting under the generator at right front, putting the intake side of the valve right above the standpipe. The bump on the pan that served as vent on non PCV engines was closed, or rather never opened when pan was stamped, and intake was through the regular vent at fuel pump stand. This intake got a much larger filter than the filter used on non PCV engines.
 
A PS on that...it is my understanding that PCV went into use to increase engine life during WWII. It would not surprise me if this happened when USA and Canada went to the 1942 engine designing, featuring the rope seal cranks, 21A and 29A.
 
Is a pcv vital...what does this setup actually gain for you on a Flathead that gets
maybe 2500 miles a year and is treated to frequent oil changes ?
On 8ba motors I add a vent to the side of the fuel pump stand and neatly route
a 'road draft tube' into the air stream under the car. At the front I plug the Ford draft
tube hole and use an easy breathing oil filler cap on the filler tube. To me the front
mounted Ford road draft tube looks clunky especially in an earlier car.
On '48 on back I like the duck bill breather and make sure the oil pan vent is open.
Charlie ny
 
No it is not vital. After 20 years with no PCV or road draft tube, my engine is as clean inside as the day I built it. I vent thru the oil fill cap at the rear of the block.
 
V8 Bob said:
IMO, a good method to add a pcv on a 59A is to cap off the forward verticle stand pipe (that leads to the pan vent), drill into the intake just above the pipe and install a grommet and the valve, and from there a 3/8" hose to intake manifold vacuum. I think some WW11 Ford flathheads used a very similar system.
Click to expand...

I came up with this exact system. I used a freeze plug in the stand pipe and a Chevy pvc stuck in the Offie intake. I tore down a engine after just a couple of years that had seen very little use. The condensation had rusted up things I though impossible. The fuel pump push rod was covered in rust.
I put a lawn mower filter on the top of the fuel pump breather. You might see the PVC and hose running from under the gen to under the carb in the pic.
 

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Charlie ny said:
Is a pcv vital...what does this setup actually gain for you on a Flathead that gets
maybe 2500 miles a year and is treated to frequent oil changes ?
On 8ba motors I add a vent to the side of the fuel pump stand and neatly route
a 'road draft tube' into the air stream under the car. At the front I plug the Ford draft
tube hole and use an easy breathing oil filler cap on the filler tube. To me the front
mounted Ford road draft tube looks clunky especially in an earlier car.
On '48 on back I like the duck bill breather and make sure the oil pan vent is open.
Charlie ny
Click to expand...


A pcv system cannot hurt anything, but will only help keep the oil and interior of the engine cleaner, and prevent normal blow-by and/or engine fumes from the atmosphere, especially at idle and slow speed vehicle movement, when the road draft cannot function. It's a win-win for both the engine and environment, and considering they've been around since the war years for military usage, and the early '60s on regular production cars, there's no good reason not to install a pcv on any engine that dosen't already have one. :)
 
It is a significant durability part, I think, the reason the military adopted it for engines that worked hard and often had to run inside an armored box. PCV plus thermostat gets water and various combustion gases that all add up to sludge and acid right outtathere.
On the labyrinthe rear seal issue...I had never noticed before, but PCV was a mid-war modification that at least roughly coincided with the US/Canadian standardization of 21 and 29 type engines with rear rope seals...
 
Considering the question at the top and seeing this please read the last line of post 4 .
V8 Bob said:
A pcv system cannot hurt anything, but will only help keep the oil and interior of the engine cleaner, and prevent normal blow-by and/or engine fumes from the atmosphere, especially at idle and slow speed vehicle movement, when the road draft cannot function. It's a win-win for both the engine and environment, and considering they've been around since the war years for military usage, and the early '60s on regular production cars, there's no good reason not to install a pcv on any engine that dosen't already have one. :)
Click to expand...
 
Another possible can of worms for the labyrinthe worries:
Smokey Younick in one of his articles on engines reported that there was a very substantial windstorm going on within flywheel housings of engines...enough was happening in there that he speculated a bit about tapping into this area as a source of supercharging!
So...I suspect this means we don't really know what might be passing through the labyrinthe already, or even which direction the worms might be crawling as they exit the can...
 
Well, I find all this confusing. Please tell me if I've got it all wrong, but in simple terms most engines need breathers to allow the pressure variations in the crankcase to vent to atmosphere. Mainly caused by compression leakage.

I'm not sure how my '32 block does this other than through the oil filler tube, which doubles as a breather.

Now I have a problem, which is that the car gets fumes in it from this breather. So I was going to make a new oil filler tube, which has a sealed cap, or make a new cap that is sealed, and braze a piece of tube in its side, go into the air cleaner somewhere, and connect the two together, which will allow the motor to breathe and also stop the fumes from getting into the car.

I'm wary of going in between the carb and the engine, because arnt you running the risk of messing with the fuel mixture?
 
Tom Walker>>>So I was going to make>>>make a new cap that is sealed, and braze a piece of tube in its side, go into the air cleaner somewhere, and connect the two together, which will allow the motor to breathe and also stop the fumes from getting into the car.>>>


I like your kind of thinking Tom. Perhaps were you thinking about a cap something like this? Jack E/NJ
breather.jpg
 
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