patterns for cabriolet top bows
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eystein
Well-known member
I bought a memory stick with Ford drawings of all cabriolet wood, except for the door wood. This is the guys' details :
Larry Singler P.O. Box 6721 Burbank, CA. 91510
Email : lsingler31@gmail.com
The drawings come in real handy, for me they have been indispensable. Takes away a lot of doubt when making the wood. I made all the top wood for my 68-B using these drawings
Drawings are for the adjustable seat Cabriolet. However if you have got a fixed seat cabriolet there are only slight differences in the front cross sill and the mating portions of the side sills.
Larry Singler P.O. Box 6721 Burbank, CA. 91510
Email : lsingler31@gmail.com
The drawings come in real handy, for me they have been indispensable. Takes away a lot of doubt when making the wood. I made all the top wood for my 68-B using these drawings
Drawings are for the adjustable seat Cabriolet. However if you have got a fixed seat cabriolet there are only slight differences in the front cross sill and the mating portions of the side sills.
hotrodalley
Senior Member
Does anyone know if these bows are being reproduced?
If so, who is the best supplier
If so, who is the best supplier
eystein
Well-known member
I think both Classic Wood and Cubel (see suppliers sticky thread) makes them. I have heard some negative responses about Cubel here on the barn, and as for Classic Wood, I have had wood from them with several errors and where they are dragging their feet when I complain. Also I think I saw someone here on the FB saying that the suppliers where making the cabriolet no. 2 bow without the internal metal reinforcement. Don't know if this is true, but you should specificly ask that question before ordering. All in all I think that I have got better top wood by making it myself from the Ford drawings than buying it. However, beware, it is A LOT of work, so if you put a value on your working hours, it will probably be much cheaper buying from one of the suppliers. You will also need a good and stable bandsaw, and preferrably also a high quality table saw and router.
For the cabriolet no. 2 bow, you will not be able to make it in one piece like Ford did unless you have access to professional steam bending equipment. You will have to laminate.
For the cabriolet no. 2 bow, you will not be able to make it in one piece like Ford did unless you have access to professional steam bending equipment. You will have to laminate.
Kevin in NJ
Well-known member
I worked with Classic to change the design of the top wood to be close to factory. That is where you will get the better wood. Expect there to be issues as I do not think a company can profitably make the wood exactly. Cubel has had issues with producing and accuracy over the years and I know the 68C wood he made was not usable as I bought some. If you get the guy on the phone he does talk like he knows his stuff.
The bows for the cabriolets suffer in various ways. The big problem is they are made from original wood. The original wood has changed because of the stresses of the top pulled across. This causes them to flatten across the top and push out the sides in response. The copies do not get enough of the original arch across the top.
I have also found that the hole in the upright part of the #1 bow is drilled in the wrong spot. This does not allow the base of the bow to be in far enough to line up with the body. Another side effect can be the top iron do not fold fully along side the wood. I have talked with several guys that can not fold their tops properly because they did not know what was happening when they assembled their tops.
The original #2 bow was one piece of wood cut to shape and steam bent. Then it was slotted along the bottom and a metal bar inserted and pinned in place. The repro that Classic makes is in 3 pieces and does not have the slot for a metal bar.
Now I am not fully sure of the exact condition of the wood made by Classic today. For the 68C Steve (the owner) got a real nice set of original wood (I would have used that wood to build my car) for patterns. He should be able to provide exact copies. I had complained (he did not believe me until he got the pattern wood) that the top wood did not work right and he remade the wood to match the masters he now has. The wood was closer, but I found some issues with how the upper landau brackets fit. I marked up the wood and explained why it needed to change and he sent me back new wood that worked much much better. The hole for the triple hinge was still not in the right place, but I know how to fix that.
SO, hopefully he carried over what he learned to the 68B wood. I know some very old 68B wood he did was made like the first set of wood I got from him. I know this wood was very difficult to set up. The major difference was the joint to the cross part from the upright was an overlap joint, not the single finger like the original. The new stuff is just like the original.
In any event, to the best of my knowledge Classic is the best option for wood. There may be other players out there. The best cabriolet wood person retired just before I started on my project.
For the sake of completeness, I never received the #2 bow from Cubel. It was always going to be done next month after about 6 months of calling I gave up. I am not the only person to have had this problem. If someone is on a budget I have some extra 68C top wood and belt rail parts that can be made to work at a very good price.
FWIW, I am going to try and fix a warped original #2 bow I have. If that does not work I may try to make a laminated steam bent bow with slot. That is a ways away.
That is what I know about wood in a nutshell. Hope I have not muddied the waters.
The bows for the cabriolets suffer in various ways. The big problem is they are made from original wood. The original wood has changed because of the stresses of the top pulled across. This causes them to flatten across the top and push out the sides in response. The copies do not get enough of the original arch across the top.
I have also found that the hole in the upright part of the #1 bow is drilled in the wrong spot. This does not allow the base of the bow to be in far enough to line up with the body. Another side effect can be the top iron do not fold fully along side the wood. I have talked with several guys that can not fold their tops properly because they did not know what was happening when they assembled their tops.
The original #2 bow was one piece of wood cut to shape and steam bent. Then it was slotted along the bottom and a metal bar inserted and pinned in place. The repro that Classic makes is in 3 pieces and does not have the slot for a metal bar.
Now I am not fully sure of the exact condition of the wood made by Classic today. For the 68C Steve (the owner) got a real nice set of original wood (I would have used that wood to build my car) for patterns. He should be able to provide exact copies. I had complained (he did not believe me until he got the pattern wood) that the top wood did not work right and he remade the wood to match the masters he now has. The wood was closer, but I found some issues with how the upper landau brackets fit. I marked up the wood and explained why it needed to change and he sent me back new wood that worked much much better. The hole for the triple hinge was still not in the right place, but I know how to fix that.
SO, hopefully he carried over what he learned to the 68B wood. I know some very old 68B wood he did was made like the first set of wood I got from him. I know this wood was very difficult to set up. The major difference was the joint to the cross part from the upright was an overlap joint, not the single finger like the original. The new stuff is just like the original.
In any event, to the best of my knowledge Classic is the best option for wood. There may be other players out there. The best cabriolet wood person retired just before I started on my project.
For the sake of completeness, I never received the #2 bow from Cubel. It was always going to be done next month after about 6 months of calling I gave up. I am not the only person to have had this problem. If someone is on a budget I have some extra 68C top wood and belt rail parts that can be made to work at a very good price.
FWIW, I am going to try and fix a warped original #2 bow I have. If that does not work I may try to make a laminated steam bent bow with slot. That is a ways away.
That is what I know about wood in a nutshell. Hope I have not muddied the waters.
30cabriolet
Senior Member
Here is my short answer:
Got the drawings from Larry.
Bought the wood from Classic.
Used the drawings to correct the mistakes in the wood from Classic.
Took the metal brace from a bad #2 bow, countersunk the holes and attached it to the back of the bow. Can't see it once the bow is wrapped.
Got the drawings from Larry.
Bought the wood from Classic.
Used the drawings to correct the mistakes in the wood from Classic.
Took the metal brace from a bad #2 bow, countersunk the holes and attached it to the back of the bow. Can't see it once the bow is wrapped.
eystein
Well-known member
After reading Kevin's reply, I am just getting more sure that I did the right thing in getting the wood drawings and making the top wood myself from drawings and using old pieces just for confirmation.
I must say though, that I am glad that I recessed the metal reinforcement into the no. 2 bow as originally done. I cannot see how an external metal reinforcement can be neatly hidden under the bowdrill. I had no problems in recessing the reinforcement into the bow. What I have though is a high-quality, stable router and a very-high quality disc router bit.
Of course you are cutting a narrow slot in the bow more than 1/2 inch deep, so if the bit should seize in the wood, things could "explode" on you. The goal should be that the bit is so sharp that it cuts the wood literally like butter so that the small misalignments that you will get even with a good stable router will not make the bit "catch". Of course, a stationary router would be the best. Attached is a photo of the bit I used (guiding ball bearing hidden behind the bit) and the bow with the metal reinforcement trial fitted in the bow.
For final assembly the reinforcement was secured with screws through the bow and epoxy.
I must say though, that I am glad that I recessed the metal reinforcement into the no. 2 bow as originally done. I cannot see how an external metal reinforcement can be neatly hidden under the bowdrill. I had no problems in recessing the reinforcement into the bow. What I have though is a high-quality, stable router and a very-high quality disc router bit.
Of course you are cutting a narrow slot in the bow more than 1/2 inch deep, so if the bit should seize in the wood, things could "explode" on you. The goal should be that the bit is so sharp that it cuts the wood literally like butter so that the small misalignments that you will get even with a good stable router will not make the bit "catch". Of course, a stationary router would be the best. Attached is a photo of the bit I used (guiding ball bearing hidden behind the bit) and the bow with the metal reinforcement trial fitted in the bow.
For final assembly the reinforcement was secured with screws through the bow and epoxy.
Attachments
lsingler31@gmail.com
New member
E-mail me at Lsingler31@gmail.com for #2 bow print
Cheers, Larry
Cheers, Larry