Paint original ?

[Tinbasher]

From what I can see in the pictures I would say that it was a strip and repaint in the 70's. The coarse sanding marks and the primer looks like the old Dupont 90S red lacquer primer. From the way its breaking up the top coat is lacquer also. Glad those days have been gone for 30 years.

John Poole, The Old Tinbasher

 

[theHIGHLANDER]

I wish lacquer was still more common myself. The biggest lacquer problems come from lack of care and excess mil thickness. Excess thickness includes primer and other substrates.

Those insisting that Ford painted the bodies over bare steel, my research says that's wrong. They were painted over red oxide primer that was wet sanded before paint. There was a ding repair process right before final prime as well. Just so this doesn't end up as a phallic size challenge I'd like to see in print where Pyroxilyn Lacquer was applied over bare steel. The paint wouldn't last a year in the more harsh environments of this country. I'm also fairly certain that the majority of folks didn't lovingly apply Simonize every month to their car for very long just to keep the finish "fed" and somewhat water proof. In advance, I welcome sensible discussion on such a topic and admit that my descriptions are quite over-simplified.

 

[darrylkmc]

Here are some photos of my 1930 Canadian Standard Phaeton, on this particular car it is paint over bare metal. The forth photo shows the finish paint flaking off the original Terne finish of the gas tank.

 

[pooch]

That flaking paint looks like water based house paint, that did not like the change in temp and the wash.

Just waiting to fall off.

 

[theHIGHLANDER]

Thank you for the pictures. In picture #3, right around the side curtain retainer, it sure looks like red oxide primer. I zoomed in on the picture to be sure that it wasn't surface rust like that which shows on a lot of what's visible. Over terne plate I could see where maybe that would be scuffed and shot, but even then anything that flaked of would likely take the primer with it. I've been painting since 73. Even at my current age of 57 I'm still at it, the majority of those years spent on restoration. You certainly know your own car and I wouldn't begin to raise a right hand to what it appears to be vs what it is in reality. 2 coats of primer were applied, 1 vertical and 1 horizontal. This is according to the DeAngelis book. 2 coats wet sanded wouldn't leave much behind, maybe just enough for adhesion. Also in the book, any bare metal was touched up and dry sanded after a thourough cleaning and drying of the wet sanded primer surface, to paraphrase the process as written. Again, thanks for the pictures. Anyone else?

 

[darrylkmc]

Here are a couple more photos of my Phaeton, I should have mentioned that I did coat the exterior of the body with Penetrol. The first photo is under the hood in the cowl area that I left untouched, the entire car looked like this prior to me cleaning it up. The second photo is the inside of the right door. This car does not have any primer, it has not been repainted, much less with latex. The small chips of lacquer coming off the Terne coating does not have any primer under it. If anyone would like photos with greater resolution, please send me a PM.

 

[Bader]

Original paint,29 coupe,no primer.

 

[theHIGHLANDER]

As read and seen in "...As Henry Built It" by DeAngelis. Is it wrong? In the photo, to the far right, you can see primed bodies going into what appears to be a drying room. This is a fairly large picture as taken off the book. Point of fact, lacquer does not adhere well to sanded or etched steel. The flash time is too fast and it never gets the mechanical bond required. I'll say again that I'm not arguing with anyone here, more like sharing . It's just that I've spent so much time studying text and detail on many cars throughout my time in this sh.., uh, stuff. Exponentially more time pouring over Packard history and photos, but I spent my share on our beloved "daughters of Dearborn" too. Enjoy the info and tell me what you think.

 

[darrylkmc]

theHIGHLANDER, As read and seen in is. "...As Henry Built It" by DeAngelis. Is it wrong?

theHIGHLANDER, I am quite familiar with George DeAngelis' book, I'm not saying that he is wrong, my experience is that his statements regarding the paint process is overly broad. I grew up studying 30'-'31 AA's, there were a half dozen of them in the woods two blocks from my house, none of these cabs had any primer, I have 3-1/2 85-B cabs, no evidence of primer, have a '32 BB, again no primer, plus, not that it matters, I have a 1926 Chevrolet, no primer. Maybe the answer is that the commercial vehicles did not receive the prep the closed cars got, and the Canadians did not conform with the US standards, don't know, only that my experience is contrary to "As Henry built it".

 

[dean from bozeman]

On a 32,000 mile original paint '29 Fordor I used to have you could see the bonderizing layer through some of the thinner paint. At a meet I stood while "experts" said that it showed that there was body work done and thus it was not an original paint job. The late, great Dave Lopes painstakingly sanded the body with 2,000 to 4,000 grit wet sand paper. It made most of the body look great but there was a section by the back window that was relatively thin and you could see the bonderizing brown.

On the back of the "Model A Paint and Finish Guide" you can read about the bonderizing process. Bonderite was coated onto the wheels and sheet metal parts in a 150,000 gallon tank using 1,845 feet of conveyor for the process.

Rereading this blurb, I see that they are saying that the bonderizing helped adhere the enamel paint to the sheet metal and wheels. Since the bodies had lacquer paint, I wonder if they bonderized the bodies. This sounds like something we need to ask Marco about.