Over-restored cars...

Steve Plucker

Steve Plucker

BANNED
Please define an "over-restored" car, say a Model A Ford, besides certain parts for which are powder-coated for which they really were not in the first place such as wheels on some vehicles.

Just what really is an "over-restored" car?

Thanks.

Pluck
 
How about an engine so shiny you can see yourself in it?

I remember that on a Bell Telephone truck at the World meet.

There is no exact definition, but you always know one when you see one.
 
[FONT=&quot]To me an over-restored model A is not the different finishes so much, as a lot of accessories added. Things like a radiator guards, step plates, tool boxes, trunks (unless touring), dual sidemounts (except deluxe models), cowl lights (on models that didn’t originally have them), runningboard do-dads, etc. This is, of course, just my opinion. I have seen some nice model A that I think went way too far in "accessorizing" them. Some of the extreme cases kind of look like pimpmobiles. I should state that the “over accessorized” model A’s are owned by the owner, so the owner certainly as the right or option to do what they want to their own car. Is seems like there aren’t all that many over-restored model A’s. Again, this is just my opinion, so take it for what its worth (not much).[/FONT]
 
Fit and finish beyond reasonable factory production standards --and then there are the obsessive things like having every screw slot aligned the same ---I don't think we can help ourselves.
 
As some wise Ones have reminded us here - If we could hop into the Way-Back Machine and return to 1931 (in my roadster's case) and bring back a Model A, fresh off the assembly line, it would be far from a 500-pointer in most judging competitions today. The list of "deficiencies" would be a mile long.

'A' owners sometimes get caught up in the modern hot rod mentality that the more trinkets and gadgets a car has, and the shinier the finishes are, the better-restored it is. (I'm guilty in some areas but I'm doing the research and making improvements whereever I can.)

But here's where I make some exceptions based on "nostalgia": Along with being a "purist" - "just like it rolled off the show room floor in 1931." - I am enjoying my Dad's memory and the way he "accessorized" the '31 Duluxe Roadster he owned in 1940 while dating my future Mom. I'm not going as far as the skirts, coon tail and "extra" decorative lights and horns he had on it (after all he was 19 years old and "cool"), but I do have "his" "running board do-dad", trunk, running board luggage rack, manifold heater, and stone guard (far a while until even I got disenchanted with its looks and yanked it.). I have some 1940's photos in their old scrap books that show them in Dad's car - with "best friends" in the rumble seat - headed for Harvey's Lake near Wilkesbarre, PA. And the old $50 bargain he was driving was anything but shiny and show-ready!

So, I for sure, ain't no big trophie-winner, but I get the greater satisfaction of experiencing a piece of history that my parents experienced and savoring the majesty of the Model A and the life-changing era of the 1930's and all of the images, happy and sad that went with it.

Anyone else here depart from strict "originality and authenticity" in order to make their 'A' fit and honor a time, a place, a special person or a memory? I don't think there's a better "canvas" on which to paint and preserve those memories than the Model A. For two generations, Model A's have been part of the glue that has bonded our family together with very special memories, common interests and great times.

Earle
 
HI Gang
To me a Henry Ford is Just that.A Ford off the productionline with the wear and tear put on it over the years. Not to say you can not inprove on the wear and tear, but anything more might be considered excessive??

Ed
 
Earle said:
... I am enjoying my Dad's memory and the way he "accessorized" the '31 Duluxe Roadster he owned in 1940 while dating my future Mom. ... For two generations, Model A's have been part of the glue that has bonded our family together with very special memories, common interests and great times.

Earle
Click to expand...

Earle,

Sounds like our parents were four of a kind! It seems like every time I look at the 1939 picture of his model A, I find something else "incorrect." Makes it hard for me to get too worked up over authenticity!


scan0028.jpg


scan0025.jpg




Steve
 
forever4,

I agree. She's about the most authentic, modestly-restored Model A I've ever seen! And all of those swell doo-dads are Ford-authorized accessories, right?!

(My Dad's roadster wasn't decked out quite that elaborately! - Though he'd be jealous!)
 
I agree with most of the comments. Every accessory that I have on mine was available back in the 30's & 40's. The $50.00 '30 tudor I had in high school in the 40's
came to me with 16 inch white wall tires and a host of other doo-dads. That's why I bought it. When I find a spotlight, I'll add it to the one I have now.
 
I believe that about every Model A that you see restored today is "over-restored". I have not personally seen one that I did not think was at least a little bit over-restored. At Hershey in 2006, I finally met Dave Corbin, a friend from the AACA Discussion Forum, in person. Dave is a Buick guy but he passed along a great Model A story. He took his "old spinster aunt" and her friend to a car show. Dave said the two women spent quite a while looking over a row of Model A Fords. His aunt then came up to him and said. "Corby, they weren't that nice when they were new!"
 
Steve Plucker said:
Please define an "over-restored" car, say a Model A Ford, besides certain parts for which are powder-coated for which they really were not in the first place such as wheels on some vehicles.

Just what really is an "over-restored" car?
Click to expand...

To most folks if means a car with more shine than theirs. To me it would be more accurately stated or described as "incorrectly restored". "Over" means very little but infers better. How can it be better? It can however be wrong or incorrect.
Kurt in NJ said:
Fit and finish beyond reasonable factory production standards --and then there are the obsessive things like having every screw slot aligned the same ---I don't think we can help ourselves.
Click to expand...

I can show you unmolested original cars with all the sheet metal fitting beyond that of 99.9% of restorations. Similarly I can show you probably dozens of archive photos showing aligned screw slots. Something like the latter requires no measurable extra time and likely was more the natural course of things in the days when craftsmanship was not the EXCEPTION to the rule.
 
MCHinson said:
He took his "old spinster aunt" and her friend to a car show. Dave said the two women spent quite a while looking over a row of Model A Fords. His aunt then came up to him and said. "Corby, they weren't that nice when they were new!"
Click to expand...

My late father was not very happy when I got into Model A's at the age of 13. to him they were just "old used cars" that folks drove because it was all they could afford in the 1940's. He did grow to appreciate them over the years, especially after seeing me bring "life" back into several projects.

By contrast my Mother had a friend in her later years that was a car nut to some extent and he just beamed when he spoke of the '31 Deluxe Roadster he purchased NEW from a dealer. It was all black with apple green stripe and wheels. He continually repeated what a beautiful car it was when new.

Anyone alive today that could provide an honest assessment would have to be about 100 years old and have been a car enthusiast to at least some extent.
 
Pet peeves - Front axles and engines that look as smooth and shiny as glass and light colored wheels with white walls.
I miss the satiny finish of nitrocellulose lacquer.
 
I'm over-restoring one now. It's a late 31 sport coupe that was kind of restored when I got it. Some things are not per the judging standards but they are way too nice to discard. It's going to have a clossy black chassis, wood grained mouldings, mohair upholstery, powder coated wheels, lots if cad plated nuts and bolts, stainless steel cotter pins, etc. I'll probably show it at concours shows a few times when its first done but mostly I'll drive it on club tours. Club tours are way more fun than shows.
 
I think Cannon got it right. It really is in the eye of the beholder.
most of my critics point out that my car has clear coat and of course
we all know that Henry didn't paint cars that way, yada, yada, yada.
Since my car is a driver, I really don't give a rat's behind what anyone
else thinks. The only person that matters is the old dude who pays
my bills. :)

Jack
 
When you look at the Ford archive photos, you will notice that the chassis assembly and associated components moved along on steel conveyors that were chain driven. Workers also used air driven hoists to handle the units. I'll bet my first born child, that when a chassis part got scratched during assembling and handling, they did not send them back to the head of the line for re-painting. In my opinion, all vehicles being judged in the fine point class had better show these type of marks and scratches, otherwise the vehicle has been over restored. i.e. Draw marks should show on the oil pan.
 
Glenn C. said:
When you look at the Ford archive photos, you will notice that the chassis assembly and associated components moved along on steel conveyors that were chain driven. Workers also used air driven hoists to handle the units. I'll bet my first born child, that when a chassis part got scratched during assembling and handling, they did not send them back to the head of the line for re-painting. In my opinion, all vehicles being judged in the fine point class had better show these type of marks and scratches, otherwise the vehicle has been over restored. i.e. Draw marks should show on the oil pan.
Click to expand...


The majority of the chassis assembly was done upside down with the top of the frame surface on the conveyor. It was then flipped so it was supported by the front and rear axles. Obviously the top side is then fully hidden. You are correct that they didn't "send them back". They did however do paint touch up later as needed. Sometimes it was very neatly done, sometimes not. I chose to restore mine as one of the better ones :)

Yes, I have draw marks in everything from the frame to the oil pan and factory ripples in the engine splash pans.
 
I think it is hard to specify a "car" that is over restored although it is possible. Generally there are sections of the car that are over restored.
It is hard to fill in rust pits from 80 years of sitting in a farm field and not also fill in some of the draw marks and stetch marks in the steel. So it takes an extra effort to put these marks back into the item after you have spent hours sanding to cover all the pits. In the 60's and 70's there was a lot more "over restoration" going on and most of that has gone out of style. Remember Henry had all new sheet metal and no pits so everything was smooth giving an ability to put down a very smooth paint job.
Especially when dipping altho then runs are evident on most parts usually in an area that is hard to see if you are looking at the car but easy for a judge to see laying under it.
I think most Fine Point cars are very well restored and try very hard to avoid the over restoration but it is an easy trap to fall into and special attention must be paid to avoid it. Sometimes I see over restoration in some area and under restoration in other areas on the same car.
I look at the MARC of originality cars and I see well built cars with good fitting parts and smooth paint jobs and castings that have that rough textured look as all castings would have.
I wish we had video avaialble for sale from the clubs showing "original cars" detailed shots so we could all look at these cars and learn how they were assembled and how nice they were. I know it is not always accurate but it is always interesting to study those "original cars"!
Thankfully, I have not seen a polished engine in many years!
I think we need to remember we developed a judging "standard guideline" and while not perfect if the rules are followed the result is a very nice restoration that is accurately done.

Ken:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top