Original points ,how thay are made
- Thread starter TDO
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Kevin in NJ
Well-known member
Someone is buying into the wrong story.
The original points did not wear down fast, UNLESS there is something wrong.
My brothers car is running with the same points that came with the car in 1970 or so. Thousands of miles of running many at highway speeds. He adjusts them every few years or more.
So it that a lot of wear?
I have a pile of used points I took off old distributors. I would have no problem using any of those points on my car. Expecting to not needing to replace them for decades. Only a couple sets I would not use because there were low quality units. The contact points all had a white fuzz on them, one set is NORS on the car and it has the fuzz.
What am I going to use on my car. I have 2 sets of NOS Ford points in later (40's?) packaging. I lucked into them at $5 each so I will use one of them. Otherwise I would just use one of the used sets I have in a cam.
You are buying into an incomplete story.
When you put new points on a car it will wear rapidly. The contact point needs to wear to the cam. So you expect to have frequent point resetting at first. As the points wear to the cam the time between setting goes way way down.
Classically what seems to happen is the guys remember they changed their points every year when they had points cars so they MUST replace theirs every year on their A. The thing is you drove your car 10,000 or 20,000 miles in the that year. Most A's are lucky to get a few hundred miles. So replacing the points every year means the points never get enough time to wear to the cam. So you are constantly adjusting the points.
Follow this advice for a car that rarely needs to be touched.
Put a quality set of original points on the car. They do not have to new. Just set up so the points contact properly.
Make sure you have a quality cam cam on the car with a smooth surface. Some have even polished their cams lightly. Bill Stipe makes a dead on B type cam you can buy new. Highly recommended by many guys. I would be using that if I did not luck out on a NOS cam at one point in time.
Put cam lube on the cam. Petroleum jelly works too. Not a lot, but it needs some.
Do not change them unless they get burned or the wear block gets seriously low.
Remember, you do not need to change the points unless they are broken.
This is all assuming you have a properly rebuilt with original parts distributer and you are following the owners manual for lubricating the dist. You have recently double checked how the dist is supposed to be lubed right?
If you are frequently changing the points or needed to reset the gap frequently you are likely doing something wrong. Depending on your amount of driving you should expect decades of life from good used points.
The original points did not wear down fast, UNLESS there is something wrong.
My brothers car is running with the same points that came with the car in 1970 or so. Thousands of miles of running many at highway speeds. He adjusts them every few years or more.
So it that a lot of wear?
I have a pile of used points I took off old distributors. I would have no problem using any of those points on my car. Expecting to not needing to replace them for decades. Only a couple sets I would not use because there were low quality units. The contact points all had a white fuzz on them, one set is NORS on the car and it has the fuzz.
What am I going to use on my car. I have 2 sets of NOS Ford points in later (40's?) packaging. I lucked into them at $5 each so I will use one of them. Otherwise I would just use one of the used sets I have in a cam.
You are buying into an incomplete story.
When you put new points on a car it will wear rapidly. The contact point needs to wear to the cam. So you expect to have frequent point resetting at first. As the points wear to the cam the time between setting goes way way down.
Classically what seems to happen is the guys remember they changed their points every year when they had points cars so they MUST replace theirs every year on their A. The thing is you drove your car 10,000 or 20,000 miles in the that year. Most A's are lucky to get a few hundred miles. So replacing the points every year means the points never get enough time to wear to the cam. So you are constantly adjusting the points.
Follow this advice for a car that rarely needs to be touched.
Put a quality set of original points on the car. They do not have to new. Just set up so the points contact properly.
Make sure you have a quality cam cam on the car with a smooth surface. Some have even polished their cams lightly. Bill Stipe makes a dead on B type cam you can buy new. Highly recommended by many guys. I would be using that if I did not luck out on a NOS cam at one point in time.
Put cam lube on the cam. Petroleum jelly works too. Not a lot, but it needs some.
Do not change them unless they get burned or the wear block gets seriously low.
Remember, you do not need to change the points unless they are broken.
This is all assuming you have a properly rebuilt with original parts distributer and you are following the owners manual for lubricating the dist. You have recently double checked how the dist is supposed to be lubed right?
If you are frequently changing the points or needed to reset the gap frequently you are likely doing something wrong. Depending on your amount of driving you should expect decades of life from good used points.
pat in Santa Cruz
Well-known member
I agree that the originals wore well after seating. It used to be well known among A owners. The quality of reproduction points began to deteriorate starting in the early 70's, as the larger American manufacturers stopped making points. Those poor repros that followed were made in Brazil and Argentina and were known for rapidly wearing blocks, hence the move to "modern" 1970's Ford points. Now, thanks to Model A vendors demanding quality parts, reproduction A points are very good, and the reproduction 1970's Ford points are inferior. So we have come full circle. At swap meets you can still occasionally find good after market original style points made in the fifties and sixties by the quality after market manufacturers. This link is to a page on Ford Garage that lists those points
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ignitionpartsmatrix.htm
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ignitionpartsmatrix.htm
quick wear on the points rubbing block is caused because some one for got to lub the cam, also the lub should collect on the front side of the block, where the cam opens the points, being there as the cam gets warm from turning any grease will get hot and travel down to the cam
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
You're right ON, Ford3,
Also, I'll tipe this AGAIN! Many times, the post that the point arm pivots on is loose & "WOBBLES" & causes bad rubbing block wear
Jist turn the plate over & "TAP-TAP-TAP, where that post is riveted to the insulating plate, under the top plate. Both my plates were loose. I've mentioned it several times & NOBODY says "SQUAT" Am I wasting time tryin' to pass on some common sense & experience info?? If so, meybe I should jist hang it up & finish Vermin, afore the Looney Bin Truck Comes fer me. Or, meybe I'll jist run away on my MyNEW 48 VOLT scooter, I kin go 40 miles afore I have to find a HOT plug in
Is thet better than a CHEV. VOLT? Bill W.Attachments
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Mike V. Florida
Well-known member
What they said!
I have experenced the same things as mentioned. The killer of rubbing blocks are rough cams.
I have experenced the same things as mentioned. The killer of rubbing blocks are rough cams.
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
Bill W.I agree with the comments about original Ford points. I was fortunate to find a whole box of original ford points for $1.00 at a yard sale about 30 years ago and have never had a problem. Based on comments by others about their longevity, I regret having replaced them about every 10-12 years, for no other reason but that I had a bunch of them.
TDO
Senior Member
Original points were made with a fiber rub block, that was soft and wore down fast., Are the reproduction type original points still made with the same soft rubbing block, or are they made with the new type plastic rubbing block.
I got my information from a video of Les Andrews how to time a model A. In the video he made the statement as to the original points had a fiber rubbing block that wore down fast. I don't know if it's true or false , just a question I had.
If you go to search, and type in Interesting video from Les Andrews you can see the video. It was originally posted by 28ACoupe.
BUBBAS IGNITION
Well-known member
On a rebuild we soak the fiber block contacts in marvel mystery oil, then before installing i wipe the excess off with brake clean then lube the block with high temp grease.
The distributor cams we polish with a plastic /fiber polishing wheel until very smooth.
Gets lots of wear time that way......
The distributor cams we polish with a plastic /fiber polishing wheel until very smooth.
Gets lots of wear time that way......
juke joint johnny
Well-known member
Hey Bill
I had a call from a friend last Friday !! He said there was a problem with the Carb I sold him !! I went around there to look at his Phaeton and Guess What !!!
That little Pin Was WOBBLIN all over the place When we fixed that it ran Fine !!!
Someone on here Says most fuel problems are electrical & He's Right
John Cochran
I had a call from a friend last Friday !! He said there was a problem with the Carb I sold him !! I went around there to look at his Phaeton and Guess What !!!
That little Pin Was WOBBLIN all over the place When we fixed that it ran Fine !!!
Someone on here Says most fuel problems are electrical & He's Right
John Cochran
Purdy Swoft
Well-known member
I always put a little lube on the cam and have had no problems with rubbing block wear on the original style points. I have been running the same set of original style points that came from Brattons since 99 on my 31 tudor. The rubbing block on the so called modern points doesn't seem to wear at all, they always quit working before any wear can take place. This has been my experience.
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
GOD! J.C, I FINALLY scored one
That wobblin' point post would be easy to miss. Since it's riveted to the insulator plate, it might get loose from moisture, humidity, etc. BOTH of mine were LOOSEY-GOOSEY Bill W.One other point, (pun intended), that is often over looked in points functioning is condenser condition. The condenser is a capacitor that is sized to provide a kickback to the arc that forms when the points open, so that the contact metal is not eroded. The coil and associated wiring dictate the size of the capacitor. Given the state of repro parts manufacturing, it would be a good idea to check any condenser for the value of it's capacitance. Then check the condition of the contact surfaces, and adjust, or not, the capacitance accordingly.
If the points develop a point on one side, and a pit on the other, the capacitor is not of the correct value.
Some of the larger electrical meters at Habba Fleight have a capacitor checking feature, or a electronics (ham radio) buff might do it for you.
This site has a good explanation of the effects of an over or undersized condenser.
http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38620
CZ
If the points develop a point on one side, and a pit on the other, the capacitor is not of the correct value.
Some of the larger electrical meters at Habba Fleight have a capacitor checking feature, or a electronics (ham radio) buff might do it for you.
This site has a good explanation of the effects of an over or undersized condenser.
http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38620
CZ
Kevin in NJ
Well-known member
This may come out wrong but.....
Les certainly has been around the A hobby for a while, but do not believe all he says.
His books have errors and certain lack of details. If you followed what he says in his books you would not have a drivable car. A quick example is the steering sector shaft diameter is wrong. You would throw away a new sector. His book also does not give you enough information to correctly determine is parts are worn past usability.
I also wonder if he does not make money on pushing the V8 point plates. He certainly talks them up a lot and has a lot of bad things to say about the original points. Kind of sounds like guys selling alternators.
That all being said. Les's book has wonderful illustrations and is a must have for your library.
Keep in mind all the books on the A have errors and they need to be used in combination. The other manual on the A is good because he has lots of Ford prints that can be used to determine actual wear. His text is kind of tough to read through at times.
Personally, I look through both manuals and I try to dig up original prints. You have to ferret out the correct information to do the project right. It is a constant fight when you first start tackling projects. After a while you a stash of correct info and it gets easier.
Les certainly has been around the A hobby for a while, but do not believe all he says.
His books have errors and certain lack of details. If you followed what he says in his books you would not have a drivable car. A quick example is the steering sector shaft diameter is wrong. You would throw away a new sector. His book also does not give you enough information to correctly determine is parts are worn past usability.
I also wonder if he does not make money on pushing the V8 point plates. He certainly talks them up a lot and has a lot of bad things to say about the original points. Kind of sounds like guys selling alternators.
That all being said. Les's book has wonderful illustrations and is a must have for your library.
Keep in mind all the books on the A have errors and they need to be used in combination. The other manual on the A is good because he has lots of Ford prints that can be used to determine actual wear. His text is kind of tough to read through at times.
Personally, I look through both manuals and I try to dig up original prints. You have to ferret out the correct information to do the project right. It is a constant fight when you first start tackling projects. After a while you a stash of correct info and it gets easier.
Purdy Swoft
Well-known member
I've got to mostly agree. I am having a good laugh. I agree that if you followed all of the instructions you probably wouldn't have a drivable car. Don't forget the part about brake rod length, I mean REALLY.. The pictures are ok. I really prefer Brattons catalog, it has the exploded diagrams, wiring diagrams, threads per inch and size of most of the hardware, head torque sequence engine specs and you name it . Its also free.
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BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
I gave my book to a friend, but I circled questionable things in red & put a red star on things that were certainly WRONG. BUT, always remember, NONE OF US ARE PERFECT, only Jesus was perfect, & they crucified him. Bill W.