Unfortunately, I don't drive my A all that much, so the gasoline in the tank has been accumulating (along with shots of MMO) over several years. I finally bit the bullet yesterday and drained the tank, cleaned out the sediment bulb and screen, and put in a quarter tank of fresh gasoline. What a world of difference in how she runs! Maybe if yours is running a little rough it's gasoline that's well past its "best by" date!
Old Gas
- Thread starter JBill
- Start date
Dennis D 1929
Member
I think most people way over state the "expiration" date of gas. I have a friend who thinks gas "goes bad" in weeks. I think he's nuts. My gas "winters" in all my equipment just fine with no issues in the spring w/o any additives in the fall. I;ve heard that the government has stock piles of millions of gallons in case of national emergency, for years under ground. I'm going to do some research on that.
J Franklin
Well-known member
It isn't the gasoline that ages it is the corn additive. I doubt the govt. stores ethanol.
Yes very likely this gas is NOT the same formula used to make the crap gas of today!
I will bet that the oil companies make the same "REAL" gas for the GOOBERMENT from years ago to use in the GOB cars and trucks.
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I agree, fresh gas along with MMO makes a big difference. That’s one reason we only fill our tank to quarter full. Enjoy.
GPierce
Well-known member
The millions of gallons stored under ground is crude oil.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve_(United_States)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve_(United_States)
Jeff/Illinois
Well-known member
You better believe they don't store crap alcohol gasoline. They want something that will work, not the crap they tell us WE have to use.
Licensed to kill
Well-known member
The methanol may play a minor roll but the issue is the gasoline. I don't know what has changed but something has. A buddy of mine bought a 1951 GMC that was parked around 1970 with a full tank of gas (he bought it in 2000). Put a battery in it and fired it up. He drove it around but once it got down to about 1/4 tank it started to not run as good so he filled it with fresh and ran perfect. In contrast, let fall I was trying to start a snowmobile that I hadn't run in 8 years. It wouldn't start. I pulled the plugs and put fuel in the cylinders and it would start but immediately quit. I killed the carbs with fresh gas and it would start and run just ling enough to burn the fresh gas then quit. I syphoned all the old gas out (5gallons) and filled with fresh, refilled the carbs with fresh and it started up, ran rough for a few minutes then ran perfect. The gas that I took out was yellow and i used it to start fires and it lit like diesel fuel, lazy to light a no flash up. BTW, sled is oil injected so the gas was not mixed. Also, no methanol in the old gas at all.
Kurt in NJ
Well-known member
I had gas that made my lawn mower spark knock in thick grass--- s I put it in the A--- no spark knock, ran fine, 10+ years old gas that smelled bad--- if it was any worse it would have gone into the benz diesel
Keith True
Well-known member
There have been gas problems since there has been gas.I can't really say that I see more gas problems than I did in the 70's.i was always pulling out big blobs of rust that were supposed to be sending units.In 1978 I bought a 68 GMC ramp truck with a V6 in it.It had been sitting for about 3 years.I got it up and running,headed out to the road and all kinds of fun things happened.Valves stuck shut,bent a bunch of pushrods,pulled some rocker studs right out of the head.i parked my Tudor in the cellar in 06,to put an interior in it.I just got it out again last week.It had over 1/2 tank of bad gas in it.I just drove it until I burned it off.You could smell me all over town driving around.I know some people like to remove the booze from their fuel,but I don't see the point.The people at the tank farm I hauled out of said that the gas is around 77-78 octane until the ethanol is added.They said the non-ethanol is formulated differently,it is NOT the same gas that they just don't add to.I thought it was the same gas,just with the alcohol added later.They set me straight on that at the tank farm.
Ken, you bring up a good point! Some old gas, as it evaporates in the tank, leaves behind a varnish -like residue. Fresh gas will dissolve this stuff, and it will end up in the combustion chambers. However, it does not burn completely and instead deposits itself on the exhaust valve stems. It is extremely sticky and WILL seize the exhaust valves, either open or shut.
Other old gas will work just fine. I think it depends on how much gas evaporated out of the tank, how long it sat, as well as the formulation of the gas, which varies according season and what part of the country it came from. After some bad experiences, I say drain and flush the tank before attempting to start on old gas. Much easier than dismantling the valve train like I had to do on my '40.
SeaSlugs
Well-known member
yup - ethanol is even better at removing this old gas varnish and thus huge chunks/goo clog up carbs and everything else.
30 Closed Cab PU
Well-known member
I have talked with gas station owners, car mechanics, motorcycle mechanics, and a small engine shop in town. Seen it online. They all agree, depending on conditions Ethanol gas starts to deteriorate and separate in 30 days, diesel in 90. Engines with extremely small carburetor passages like some lawnmowers and power washers, motorcycles, snow blowers, are the most susceptible. Most of the time tractors, cars are not as affected.
Dennis, I suspect wintering gas without precautions will one day catch up with you - just saying. One of which is getting water/condensation and will start the process of rust in metal gas tanks. Perhaps varnish in you carb passages. Been there/done that a couple of times when I was either lazy of forgot to prep my stuff. Ended up costing me lots of bucks in the spring.
Why take a chance, a lot of headaches, possibly costly.
Dennis, I suspect wintering gas without precautions will one day catch up with you - just saying. One of which is getting water/condensation and will start the process of rust in metal gas tanks. Perhaps varnish in you carb passages. Been there/done that a couple of times when I was either lazy of forgot to prep my stuff. Ended up costing me lots of bucks in the spring.
Why take a chance, a lot of headaches, possibly costly.
marty in Ohio
Well-known member
I've not had any problems, in the past 25 years, with stale gas over the winter, but reading your posts makes me nervous. What is my best protection? Does Sta-bil do the job?
Marty
Marty
30 Closed Cab PU
Well-known member
Hi Marty,
My opinion, opinions may vary. If others on the Barn disagree let me know, this is my understanding, always open to being corrected.
There has been tons of discussion on this subject on the Barn
This is similar to asking what the best oil is, run or not run an air filter, run or not run an in line/Sediment bulb gas filter, which brand antifreeze is the best (should be using green, as long as you have not run something else, check the Barn about this before converting from one type to another). Best way to set points, set timing, etc., etc
Lots of preferences, I am not sure anyone really knows what is best. The fact you are using Stabil is good. I've heard that Stabil 360 and Marine Stabil is better than the standard red Stabil. Keep in mind that once opened I think Stabil has a shelf life of 2 years, so I assume this means it is only good for gas stored for up to 2 years. Stabil is good at preventing the ethanol separation in the gas. After sitting for extended periods the ethanol seperates from gas, with gas on the top and ethanol on the bottom. Not sure if Stabil does anything to disperse water. Water also separates and sits in the bottom of the tank. The Model A has a small area of the tank that is below the level of the Gas Petcock for collecting rust/debris and water. Some when encountering rust in the petcock screen, sediment bulb screen, bottom of the bulb, water in the bottom of the bulb - remove the petcock, siphon this area, let dry (some use a hair drier blow through the tank, think I heard or saw someone using a leaf blower to speed things up) and vacuum or use a magnet. That is why my preference is to store with a full tank, to reduce condensation.
My understanding is most treatments do not magically make water disappear, but try to break it up enough into the gas so it is burned when running the vehicle.
My father collected antique tractors, lots of them sat outside for years un-started, ones that were not restored. He put gas treatment in them, but after a few years (3 or more years) the gas was nasty, foul smelling and full of water/rust. This is an extreme case, gas preservatives/treatments generally do not work for this long of a time in this situation, or on the amount of water condensation in a tank outside in this extreme case. If he wanted to start one he would blow the gas lines out, a little quick start, and try to start it. If it ran it he was happy. If it would not run, which was most of the time, he drained the tank through panty hose into a bucket, cleaned out the carb, mixed in fresh gas with the old gas 50/50 , stuck it back in the tank, and the tractors 90% of the time would run. The other times he had so much rust in the tank the rust kept plugging the gas line. He would flush the tank with a garden hose. Telling you this, this can happen, likely not as much for us A people, vehicles stored inside, and treating the gas.
Again, my opinion and understanding. Hope you do not mind the long answer. I tend to be over informative.
My opinion, opinions may vary. If others on the Barn disagree let me know, this is my understanding, always open to being corrected.
There has been tons of discussion on this subject on the Barn
This is similar to asking what the best oil is, run or not run an air filter, run or not run an in line/Sediment bulb gas filter, which brand antifreeze is the best (should be using green, as long as you have not run something else, check the Barn about this before converting from one type to another). Best way to set points, set timing, etc., etc
Lots of preferences, I am not sure anyone really knows what is best. The fact you are using Stabil is good. I've heard that Stabil 360 and Marine Stabil is better than the standard red Stabil. Keep in mind that once opened I think Stabil has a shelf life of 2 years, so I assume this means it is only good for gas stored for up to 2 years. Stabil is good at preventing the ethanol separation in the gas. After sitting for extended periods the ethanol seperates from gas, with gas on the top and ethanol on the bottom. Not sure if Stabil does anything to disperse water. Water also separates and sits in the bottom of the tank. The Model A has a small area of the tank that is below the level of the Gas Petcock for collecting rust/debris and water. Some when encountering rust in the petcock screen, sediment bulb screen, bottom of the bulb, water in the bottom of the bulb - remove the petcock, siphon this area, let dry (some use a hair drier blow through the tank, think I heard or saw someone using a leaf blower to speed things up) and vacuum or use a magnet. That is why my preference is to store with a full tank, to reduce condensation.
My understanding is most treatments do not magically make water disappear, but try to break it up enough into the gas so it is burned when running the vehicle.
My father collected antique tractors, lots of them sat outside for years un-started, ones that were not restored. He put gas treatment in them, but after a few years (3 or more years) the gas was nasty, foul smelling and full of water/rust. This is an extreme case, gas preservatives/treatments generally do not work for this long of a time in this situation, or on the amount of water condensation in a tank outside in this extreme case. If he wanted to start one he would blow the gas lines out, a little quick start, and try to start it. If it ran it he was happy. If it would not run, which was most of the time, he drained the tank through panty hose into a bucket, cleaned out the carb, mixed in fresh gas with the old gas 50/50 , stuck it back in the tank, and the tractors 90% of the time would run. The other times he had so much rust in the tank the rust kept plugging the gas line. He would flush the tank with a garden hose. Telling you this, this can happen, likely not as much for us A people, vehicles stored inside, and treating the gas.
Again, my opinion and understanding. Hope you do not mind the long answer. I tend to be over informative.
leo
Well-known member
I've used this product in my small engines with success, B3C Fuel Solutions 2-024-1 Mechanic In A Bottle. Have any of you tried it. I would be interested in your feedback. It says that it does the following:
Fixes a no start or a hard starting gas powered engine.
Replaces the lost octane in decayed fuel.
Rejuvenates and protects the rubber gaskets and seals.
Cleans a varnished carburetor.
Fixes a no start or a hard starting gas powered engine.
Replaces the lost octane in decayed fuel.
Rejuvenates and protects the rubber gaskets and seals.
Cleans a varnished carburetor.
Dennis D 1929
Member
Many good comments , thanks !
I have been driving these cars for almost 60 years. I really don’t think they care. Any gas today is better than what was sold 90 years ago. I just always add MMO. Enjoy.
30 Closed Cab PU
Well-known member
Here is a string I started about K401 which seems to be another product made by the same company. In it is a link to fuel testers about additives and ethanol.
The string and link might answer some of your questions.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250776&highlight=k401