oil with zinc

The only thing I have found on 30/10W-30 oil is that it meets zero sheer requirements of a straight 30 as well as the cold temp properties of a 10W-30. It can also be used as a diesel engine oil. I do not know who makes it.

I'll continue to research.
 
Leadfoot4U said:
Non-detergent oil does not have the additives
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There are mono-grade oils that have no anti-wear, friction modifiers, corrosion inhibitors, etc... and there are mono-grades that do.

Non-detergent oils tend to have no additives. These are listed as non-detergent. They are not suitable for most engines.

Detergent mono-grade oils do have additives. These are often listed as HD.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/non-detergent-and-additized-mono-grades.322992/
 
Read the whole sentence "Non-detergent oil does not have the additives that suspends the various particles that accumulate within a running engine". That's why their called non-detergent, they don't clean the oil as well when run through a filter.

Most non-detergent oils do indeed have additives, like the Valvoline product I linked to in my post.
 
Let's say you have just put 1000 miles on your flathead without a filter. It is now time to change the oil. Which would you rather drain out of your crankcase; something that "suspends the various particles that accumulate within a running engine", or something that "allows the particles to drop to the bottom of the oil pan"? I don't think there's much choice.

Just about every one of those horror shows we have seen with seriously "gunked up" engines are the result of non-detergent oil combined with neglect. To suggest the use of non-detergent oil in an automobile engine is in almost all cases bad advice.
 
I'm not an engine expert, but its been stated here many times by folks who are, "our flatheads have such low valve spring pressure that cam and lifter damage from low zinc content is not really a concern. I use the cheapest diesel oil I can find.
 
We build mainly race, performance and classic engines. Have seen several in the past 10 years with flat tappet cam and lifter failures because of using oils with out enough zinc. We used a lot of rotella for a while when others were hard to get. The one thing about the rotella being made for diesel engines, it seemed to turn black quicker which we figured was due to the mount of detergents in that oil. We mainly use Lucas Hot rod and classic mineral type oil, which has the zinc in it. We have had good luck with it. I will be using it in the flathead for my 34. Even though they might not have big spring pressure, when things get hot and idling around possibly the oil pressure is not that high , the zinc tends to imbed in the metal.
 
RGC1 said:
We build mainly race, performance and classic engines. Have seen several in the past 10 years with flat tappet cam and lifter failures because of using oils with out enough zinc. We used a lot of rotella for a while when others were hard to get. The one thing about the rotella being made for diesel engines, it seemed to turn black quicker which we figured was due to the mount of detergents in that oil. We mainly use Lucas Hot rod and classic mineral type oil, which has the zinc in it. We have had good luck with it. I will be using it in the flathead for my 34. Even though they might not have big spring pressure, when things get hot and idling around possibly the oil pressure is not that high , the zinc tends to imbed in the metal.
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\Good post!
 
Leadfoot4U said:
Read the whole sentence "Non-detergent oil does not have the additives that suspends the various particles that accumulate within a running engine". That's why their called non-detergent, they don't clean the oil as well when run through a filter.

Most non-detergent oils do indeed have additives, like the Valvoline product I linked to in my post.
Click to expand...

If you read the post I linked, you'll see for yourself... from people who know far more about oil than either of us... non-detergent oils tend to NOT have any anti-wear additives. I'll post the link again.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/non-detergent-and-additized-mono-grades.322992/

Some oil distributors were sued for calling ND oil 'engine oil'. Goes on to say it isn't rated for any engine made past 1930.

Using non-detergent oil is also the quickest way to gunk up an engine to lethal levels. Gunk doesn't always settle into the bottom of the oil pan. It settles in galleries, and all other areas of the engine. It can also lead to stuck valves.

You do you... but don't spread misinformation regarding non-detergent oil to everyone else. Read through the link. Lots of good information.

It's easy to mistake SAE 30 ND (non detergent) for SAE 30 HD, which is actual engine oil.
 
FL&WVMIKE said:
If you read the post I linked, you'll see for yourself... from people who know far more about oil than either of us... non-detergent oils tend to NOT have any anti-wear additives. I'll post the link again.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/non-detergent-and-additized-mono-grades.322992/

Some oil distributors were sued for calling ND oil 'engine oil'. Goes on to say it isn't rated for any engine made past 1930.

Using non-detergent oil is also the quickest way to gunk up an engine to lethal levels. Gunk doesn't always settle into the bottom of the oil pan. It settles in galleries, and all other areas of the engine. It can also lead to stuck valves.

You do you... but don't spread misinformation regarding non-detergent oil to everyone else. Read through the link. Lots of good information.

It's easy to mistake SAE 30 ND (non detergent) for SAE 30 HD, which is actual engine oil.
Click to expand...
I have seen an ad in Hemmings for ND oil being correct for your Model A as "this was the original type oil therefore correct". YIKES!!!
 
FL&WVMIKE said:
If you read the post I linked, you'll see for yourself... from people who know far more about oil than either of us... non-detergent oils tend to NOT have any anti-wear additives.

You do you... but don't spread misinformation regarding non-detergent oil to everyone else.
Click to expand...

Speaking of misinformation, try these other links to information regarding non-detergent oils for older auto engines (without filters).

Engine Oil Non-Detergent: Why It’s Not Just a Type of Oil, It’s a Ticking Time Bomb. Don't be fooled by the title. The "ticking time bomb" is regards to newer engines using non-detergent oils. Not the kind of engines we have in the early flatheads, T's and A's. Or, in the smaller 4cycle engines that this thread started with. Here is an excerpt from this article:

What to know

1.Engine oil plays a crucial role in the smooth functioning of a vehicle’s engine.

2.Non-detergent oil provides better protection against wear and tear in older engines with looser tolerances, while detergent oil is better at cleaning and removing contaminants.

3.Can I use non-detergent engine oil in a modern vehicle?

Or this article Detergent VS. Non-Detergent: Choose the Right Motor Oil for You

Where it states:

It is important to break down the misconception that all non-detergent oils are bad. Non-detergent and detergent oils both have their benefits and downfalls but each application is unique.

Before you go spouting on about "misinformation", perhaps you should let others decide on their own. Everyone has an opinion, let sound knowledge have the last word.
 
Two rules of thumb:
Don’t believe everything you think.
If you read it on the internet, it must be true?
 
This zinc controversy reminds me of back about 40 years ago when they took the lead out of gas. The belief was that our older engines would be adversely affected by the lack of lead and our fuel supplier actually gave us the option of adding a product called "valve safe" to the gas when filling up. I did use it for a while but eventually everybody stopped caring or worrying about it. I have not seen any valve problems or adverse effects from the lack of lead after all these years. I'm guessing its the same with zinc. Much ado about nothing.
 
Like Ralph just said---- And no lead gas is great for burning cleaner without fouling plugs. In the early 70's we were changing spark plugs every 20,000 miles that is unheard of today. Modern Cars with fuel injection are made to go 100,000 miles between spark plug changes.

In the early 80's a lot of GM cam shafts were failing and they were blaming Quaker State motor oil. It turned out the problem was in the camshaft design and make up not so much the oil, as I recall from my GM friends.
 
Boy, I really started something here. I don't think I have anything to add at this point. A lot to digest.
 
Jeff/Illinois said:
Like Ralph just said---- And no lead gas is great for burning cleaner without fouling plugs. In the early 70's we were changing spark plugs every 20,000 miles that is unheard of today. Modern Cars with fuel injection are made to go 100,000 miles between spark plug changes.

In the early 80's a lot of GM cam shafts were failing and they were blaming Quaker State motor oil. It turned out the problem was in the camshaft design and make up not so much the oil, as I recall from my GM friends.
Click to expand...

Just to add a little tidbit. Modern spark plug longevity has also been improved by the metal composition of the electrode. Most modern plugs are able to use a thin, slender electrode made from a semi-precious metal that can withstand the high current charge being thrown at it. Having individual spark coils on each spark plug also helps to give the fuel charge quite of shot of voltage to help burn it as completely as possible. These were all engineering for to help get more efficiency, better fuel economy and lower emissions.

They've worked their longer life span into the price. Modern plugs cost $20-$50 a piece vs. the $2-3 plugs that lasted 1/5th less. They are going to get your money one way or another. LOL!

Unleaded fuel and the current fuel formulas have come miles since the '70's.
 
RalphG said:
This zinc controversy reminds me of back about 40 years ago when they took the lead out of gas. The belief was that our older engines would be adversely affected by the lack of lead
Click to expand...

Valve seat recession is a real thing for non-hardened valve seats when using unleaded fuel.

That being said, it's mostly an issue with engines that are run under high load for long periods of time... such as trucks pulling trailers up long, steep grades. A passenger car that sees occasional use, doesn't get a ton of miles put on it, and isn't run under high load conditions for extended periods isn't likely to have an issue.

If you go on a lot of tours and want to push your flathead to 70 mph for long distances, you may be a good candidate for hardened valve seats.
 
I work at a GM dealer and one of the young guys drove a Honda Civic. It quit running coming into the parking lot one day.He said the oil light had been in for a while. He was a parts department employee. One of the techs pulled out the stick and it had nothing on the stick. They pushed it in the shop and no oil came out. He hadn’t checked or changed it for over 20,000 miles. They put a filter on it, filled it up with oil and it started up and ran like new. He drove it for another year and never changed the oil. Try that with a Chev Equinox.
 
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