jkeller@nerej.com
Junior Member
I read that applying a little oil to the front and rear springs on a model a will improve the ride. True?
oil springs?
- Thread starter jkeller@nerej.com
- Start date
Purdy Swoft
Well-known member
If you don't have shocks , it will cause bounce and will be far worse than ever .
Curtis in MA
Senior Member
On another thread they said oil attracts dirt and then acts like sandpaper. Use a dry lube.
woofa.express
Well-known member
I installed post made shocks and the ride was uncomfortable. Harsh, abrupt ride and when I removed them and the ride has improved but still not real good. However I do feel the problem lies more in the springs and shackles.
Synchro909
Well-known member
Woofa, I agree that the shockers sold by the vendors are too hard. I have them on a couple of cars. One is not too bad, the other, terrible. The first car I fitted telescopic shockers on was at the rear of my Phaeton. I bought a pair of shockers meant for a Falcon Station Wagon, made my own mounts and mounted them at an angle to soften the ride some more. It works very well, in fact that is the car we do our outback miles in. About 50,000 miles on them now and they are still the best ones I have. I think the vendors need to have a look at this. It might only take a change in the design of the mounts to make them better. If I can figure it out and get it right first time, I'm sure they could make improvements if they put their minds to it but I'm not holding my breath.
If it’s a car you are planning on keeping and driving. If quality ride and handling mean something to you.
There are three things that I would make sure get done. New front and rear USA made springs and shackles. Correct shocks. Completely rebuilt front end and steering box.
Add brakes to this list. Now you will enjoy your 90 year old car and see how they really handle. Enjoy.
There are three things that I would make sure get done. New front and rear USA made springs and shackles. Correct shocks. Completely rebuilt front end and steering box.
Add brakes to this list. Now you will enjoy your 90 year old car and see how they really handle. Enjoy.
Synchro909
Well-known member
katy
Well-known member
There's an oil hole in the front spring upper clamp (at the crank hole) to oil the front spring.
The Master Cylinder
Well-known member
I oil my springs then install spring covers to keep the dirt off.
Joe K
Well-known member
I am reminded of my 1978 Chevrolet Isuzu Pickup. You remember those days, 6' bed, 5 speeds on the floor, no A/C, roll down crank windows. And once you disabled the "air pump" (sprays compressed air at the exhaust valves to cool them and combust any CO gases remaining) 40+ miles per gallon.
The truck was a POS - except for cheap. A rust-bucket in waiting - but more because of the rear bed which was produced in the US and applied here rather than the actual Japanese sourced cab/engine/drivetrain.
In 1979 I'm driving it to South Boston from Cape Cod, up the treacherous Route 3 all the way. A road of MANY potholes at that time. And hammering my spine into the seat-back brace which bent under my 200lbs plus (at that time.)
I resolved I would "improve" the ride - loads of firewood in the back worked well to settle it down - until some South Boston miscreant stole the green hardwood out of the back of the truck. What does one do with a quarter ton of green hardwood in South Boston?
Resolving again to "soften" the ride, I removed the rear leaf springs and dismounted and "cleaned" each spring - reassembling the spring pac with lubricious quantities of Never-Seize - which in those days was oil-based rather than today's water based formulation.
Time came for my next ride - and WHAT A RIDE it was without any weight in the car. The poor little truck was ALL OVER THE ROAD in cartoonish gallops. Other drivers sensed the handling inadequacy of the truck and the (apparent) stupidity of the driver and kept a wide berth. So embarrassing.
I did arrive at my destination in one piece - and was thankful for a post 9 p.m. return to Cape Cod when the commuting traffic had abated.
Some more weight helped - but I clued into the REAL problem which is that a spring/dashpot combination has an "optimal" displacement return resistance. Too much resistance makes the system return slow and uses up time which can allow further displacement - too little resistance makes the system return to center faster - but causes rebound which delays actual return to "center."
For each spring/dashpot/weight combination there is an "optimal damping" condition with quickest return to center and maximum control.
In the case of my truck, I REMOVED the Never-Seize, and replaced the rear shocks with Mom&Pop Monroe replacement shocks. Afterwards, the car was still uncomfortable to take to Boston (what small pickup is not?) but at least I had control of the vehicle along the way.
More weight in a vehicle can "soften" the ride - but at some expense in control and handling. With the weight one delays that "return to center" and potentially causes rebound with the additional weight. For a truck, the return to center position delay caused by weight might not be a bad thing since a truck is "oversprung/over resisted" by design. (i.e. stiff ride) I.e. It's designed to carry a load.
The original Model A design included lubrication as part of the spring design. Hence Ford offering the spring covers as a "useful accessory." But it also requires the correct shocks, set at the correct resistance for the weight of the car and the contents. Ford was fairly advanced in anticipating this design asset and allowing for adjustment.
MANY Model As on the road are "barnyard relics" which haven't had either a shock applied OR lubricated springs since before WWII. In these cases (My 29 CC pickup an example) the resistance of the spring leaves sliding across each other may substitute for the lack of a Houdaille shock unit resistance. Lubricating the spring MAY, and probably will make the ride/control worse.
Joe K
The truck was a POS - except for cheap. A rust-bucket in waiting - but more because of the rear bed which was produced in the US and applied here rather than the actual Japanese sourced cab/engine/drivetrain.
In 1979 I'm driving it to South Boston from Cape Cod, up the treacherous Route 3 all the way. A road of MANY potholes at that time. And hammering my spine into the seat-back brace which bent under my 200lbs plus (at that time.)
I resolved I would "improve" the ride - loads of firewood in the back worked well to settle it down - until some South Boston miscreant stole the green hardwood out of the back of the truck. What does one do with a quarter ton of green hardwood in South Boston?
Resolving again to "soften" the ride, I removed the rear leaf springs and dismounted and "cleaned" each spring - reassembling the spring pac with lubricious quantities of Never-Seize - which in those days was oil-based rather than today's water based formulation.
Time came for my next ride - and WHAT A RIDE it was without any weight in the car. The poor little truck was ALL OVER THE ROAD in cartoonish gallops. Other drivers sensed the handling inadequacy of the truck and the (apparent) stupidity of the driver and kept a wide berth. So embarrassing.
I did arrive at my destination in one piece - and was thankful for a post 9 p.m. return to Cape Cod when the commuting traffic had abated.
Some more weight helped - but I clued into the REAL problem which is that a spring/dashpot combination has an "optimal" displacement return resistance. Too much resistance makes the system return slow and uses up time which can allow further displacement - too little resistance makes the system return to center faster - but causes rebound which delays actual return to "center."
For each spring/dashpot/weight combination there is an "optimal damping" condition with quickest return to center and maximum control.
In the case of my truck, I REMOVED the Never-Seize, and replaced the rear shocks with Mom&Pop Monroe replacement shocks. Afterwards, the car was still uncomfortable to take to Boston (what small pickup is not?) but at least I had control of the vehicle along the way.
More weight in a vehicle can "soften" the ride - but at some expense in control and handling. With the weight one delays that "return to center" and potentially causes rebound with the additional weight. For a truck, the return to center position delay caused by weight might not be a bad thing since a truck is "oversprung/over resisted" by design. (i.e. stiff ride) I.e. It's designed to carry a load.
The original Model A design included lubrication as part of the spring design. Hence Ford offering the spring covers as a "useful accessory." But it also requires the correct shocks, set at the correct resistance for the weight of the car and the contents. Ford was fairly advanced in anticipating this design asset and allowing for adjustment.
MANY Model As on the road are "barnyard relics" which haven't had either a shock applied OR lubricated springs since before WWII. In these cases (My 29 CC pickup an example) the resistance of the spring leaves sliding across each other may substitute for the lack of a Houdaille shock unit resistance. Lubricating the spring MAY, and probably will make the ride/control worse.
Joe K
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Joe K's experience reminds me of my experience with a rust bucket Model A pickup that had no shocks, a 10-leaf rear spring, and a very harsh ride. I cleaned up the leaves and ground down the wear spots, then reassembled the rear spring pack with only 8 leaves, minus the #8 and #10 leaves. Each leaf received a generous slathering of graphite grease.
The result was like riding a drunk porpoise for any speed above 35 MPH. Railroad crossings could be were especially terrifying. Some extra weight in the bed did help somewhat. In a way, those old rusty springs might be regarded as a safety factor.
The result was like riding a drunk porpoise for any speed above 35 MPH. Railroad crossings could be were especially terrifying. Some extra weight in the bed did help somewhat. In a way, those old rusty springs might be regarded as a safety factor.
woofa.express
Well-known member
I see one manufacturer offering springs with a button at end of each leaf. Probably nylon or simular. Does anyone have experience with such.
Some time back a contributor posted a diagram of which springs to use for each specific vehicle. for the life of my I can't seem to find it. Can someone help please. Thankyou in advance for your help. gary
Some time back a contributor posted a diagram of which springs to use for each specific vehicle. for the life of my I can't seem to find it. Can someone help please. Thankyou in advance for your help. gary