Oil Filter?

['29 Pickup]

I was looking at the full flow oil filter kit and I am wondering how this works.
As I understand it, the oiling is an unpressurised splash system.
Surely in that scenario there is little to no pressure to push the oil through the filter. What I visualise is that once the filter is full of oil there is nothing to push it out again? Am I missing something here?
Thanks.

 

[alexiskai]

This comes up a lot. The full-flow system works because the intake for the filter is plumbed directly into the output for the pump, i.e., there is nowhere for the pump output to go except through the filter. That provides the pressure.

 

['29 Pickup]

This comes up a lot. The full-flow system works because the intake for the filter is plumbed directly into the output for the pump, i.e., there is nowhere for the pump output to go except through the filter. That provides the pressure.

Is there enough residual pressure left at the filter outlet so that the oiling is as effective as if the filter was not plumbed directly into the pump outlet?

 

[alexiskai]

Is there enough residual pressure left at the filter outlet so that the oiling is as effective as if the filter was not plumbed directly into the pump outlet?

The oil pump is a positive displacement pump, so it will pump the same volume of oil per rpm under all conditions. The volume of oil per second coming out of the filter is identical to the volume going into the filter at a given rpm, assuming the filter media is saturated.

 

[johnneilson]

Is there enough residual pressure left at the filter outlet so that the oiling is as effective as if the filter was not plumbed directly into the pump outlet?

It depends on the actual oiling system used.

If completely stock A, you only have to pump oil into the well in the valve chamber.
The pressure is not important, the stk pump can overcome the filter restriction if the pump housing or drive is properly setup.

If the motor is modified to run a pressure system then there may be a loss, probably not worth mentioning. Depends on the regulator and where it is in the system.

J

 

[Randall]

This might help https://youtu.be/9YXjaxxC7rE?si=1YhWr5GyMwPgyUbs

 

[katy]

I was looking at the full flow oil filter kit

Which one?

 

[alexiskai]

Which one?

There’s only one kit that’s a full-flow filter process, i.e, filters all pump output.

 

[Herb Concord Ca]

It mounts on the new valve chamber cover. The other filter mounts on a new side timing gear cover, this is the bypass filter.

 

[katy]

Thanks for the update.

 

[Randall]

29 pickup,heres a video showing how to install https://youtu.be/1RrgR4SKsj8?si=acKSz_WMBSgk8BCY

 

[Sunny the Model A]

I prefer the partial flow filter because it has a failsafe, since the car came stock with a plug on the block, if the filter plugs it wont hurt it. The full flow filter strains the stock pump over time. Since oil travels up the casting around the shaft, the pressure of the oil on the filter pushes down on the shaft, and the gear drills down into the bottom plate. if that happens, oil pressure slowly starts dropping, once it drops below the 35lbs that it takes to open the drain back valve in the filter, oil stops flowing and the result can be disaster. If you want to use the full flow kit, punch or drill out the drain back valve in the filter to keep the pump from wearing out, it'll also get oil to the valve galley quicker. you can also get a partial flow filter. All the oil gets through, it just takes more time. And with the partial flow you pretty much have to drill out the filter drain back valve, or else it wont open. Thats my 2 cents.

 

[Herb Concord Ca]

In a typical oil filter, where is the drain back valve? A picture it would be helpful.
With the bypass oil filter kit, do you need to use a special filter, to get oil to flow through the filter? I'm confused!

 

[alexiskai]

I prefer the partial flow filter because it has a failsafe, since the car came stock with a plug on the block, if the filter plugs it wont hurt it. The full flow filter strains the stock pump over time. Since oil travels up the casting around the shaft, the pressure of the oil on the filter pushes down on the shaft, and the gear drills down into the bottom plate. if that happens, oil pressure slowly starts dropping, once it drops below the 35lbs that it takes to open the drain back valve in the filter, oil stops flowing and the result can be disaster. If you want to use the full flow kit, punch or drill out the drain back valve in the filter to keep the pump from wearing out, it'll also get oil to the valve galley quicker. you can also get a partial flow filter. All the oil gets through, it just takes more time. And with the partial flow you pretty much have to drill out the filter drain back valve, or else it wont open. Thats my 2 cents.

I'm sorry, this comment doesn't make any sense.

• Filters do not "plug." If pressure begins to build up behind the filter, the bypass valve will open at roughly 10 psi. The number varies by filter model. The bypass valve routes oil around the filter media to prevent the engine being starved for oil. This valve triggers all the time in modern cars during a cold start so that oil will flow while the engine warms up.
• There is no such thing as a drain-back valve. There is an anti-drain back or ADB valve. This is a nitrile or silicone lip that goes around the outer ring of holes in the filter. You can see it, it's usually black (nitrile) or red (silicone). This valve is extremely soft and can be opened by the slightest pressure from the outside of the filter. Its purpose is to prevent oil that has entered the filter through those outer holes from draining back out due to gravity, which would create a gap in oil flow when the engine restarted. The statement that this valve requires 35 psi to open is false.
• The belief that you need to drill/punch holes in the ADB membrane is false and counterproductive. Compromising this valve only leads to the situation described above where oil drains back out of the filter and has to be "reloaded" by the pump at startup. You can disprove it easily by pushing on the exposed membrane with a roll pin punch – you can feel the valve open at the slightest pressure.
• I can't speak to the theory that resistance from the filter eventually compromises the pump. I'd like to see evidence for this. The only resistance in the circuit is that created by the filter media itself. The pump seems robust enough to withstand this.

 

[Sunny the Model A]

In a typical oil filter, where is the drain back valve? A picture it would be helpful.
With the bypass oil filter kit, do you need to use a special filter, to get oil to flow through the filter? I'm confused!

the black rubber underneath the 6 holes in the ford fl1a filter is the drain back valve. What that valve is designed to do is prevent oil from draining back into the sump when the engine shuts down. As for the filter type, any filter that you can fit onto it without leaking will work. I recommend the cheapest you can find. Generally, the ford fl1a or the Purolator l30001 are the most common used. both have the drain back valve. Generator filters don't have the drain back valve but generally don't filter as well All you have to do to the filter is either drill or punch holes in it. if you put oil into the center hole after drilling out the drain back valve, you should see oil seep out of the valve holes when slowly tilted.

 

[Y-Blockhead]

I'm sorry, this comment doesn't make any sense.

• Filters do not "plug." If pressure begins to build up behind the filter, the bypass valve will open at roughly 10 psi. The number varies by filter model. The bypass valve routes oil around the filter media to prevent the engine being starved for oil. This valve triggers all the time in modern cars during a cold start so that oil will flow while the engine warms up.
• There is no such thing as a drain-back valve. There is an anti-drain back or ADB valve. This is a nitrile or silicone lip that goes around the outer ring of holes in the filter. You can see it, it's usually black (nitrile) or red (silicone). This valve is extremely soft and can be opened by the slightest pressure from the outside of the filter. Its purpose is to prevent oil that has entered the filter through those outer holes from draining back out due to gravity, which would create a gap in oil flow when the engine restarted. The statement that this valve requires 35 psi to open is false.
• The belief that you need to drill/punch holes in the ADB membrane is false and counterproductive. Compromising this valve only leads to the situation described above where oil drains back out of the filter and has to be "reloaded" by the pump at startup. You can disprove it easily by pushing on the exposed membrane with a roll pin punch – you can feel the valve open at the slightest pressure.
• I can't speak to the theory that resistance from the filter eventually compromises the pump. I'd like to see evidence for this. The only resistance in the circuit is that created by the filter media itself. The pump seems robust enough to withstand this.

Thank you once again alexiskai. I was going to write a comment but I didn't want to get into this discussion once again. Some people are going to believe falsehoods no matter how many times you tell them they are incorrect and passing false info...

Even Paul Shinn said in one of his videos to drill holes in the ADB. Don't do it!!

As far as the oil pump wearing out due to the minimal back pressure caused by the filter, what about the engines that are pressurized, such as the new Burtz engine?

 

[Herb Concord Ca]

Thank you, Sunny, for the picture showing the drain back valve.
Thank you, Alexiskai, for your comments as well.

 

[Sunny the Model A]

that's why I don't mess with the burtz block, inserts or high compression. The burtz block is reinventing the wheel in my opinion. No offense to Terry as it's a great idea having a new engine available to the hot rodder to play with, but to the normal A it just isn't needed. and I have had nothing but success with punching out the anti drainback valve. the reason for doing that is I have the partial flow oil filter, since the valve gallery obviously isn't pressurized, if you don't relieve the valve, the valve won't open and the oil will simply bypass the partial flow kit entirely. The idea is by making the oil filter free flowing part of the oil will drain through the filter and get cleaned. it is because of this concept of letting oil drain through the filter I say to punch out the anti drainback valve. I drive my A every day and have never had an issue by punching the filter. I have also left the filter as is and at the interval I change my oil. I always cut the filter open to inspect for anything unusual. The untouched filter had nothing in it and was dry as my humor. the ones I punch out had oil in them and had a bit of discoloration from natural sediment. And for the record the reason I mentioned the oil pump wear was I have a friend who had the full flow kit and had pulled the motor for something unrelated. I pulled the pump apart and noticed a deep trench cut by the gears into the lower plate. Although something else could have caused it, it was a fairly new pump and the filter kit was installed at the same time the oil pump was installed so it's too good of a coincidence. here is a photo of my set up that is use and have had great success

 

[GPierce]

thank you once again alexiskai. I was going to write a comment but i didn't want to get into this discussion once again. Some people are going to believe falsehoods no matter how many times you tell them they are incorrect and passing false info...

Even paul shinn said in one of his videos to drill holes in the adb. Don't do it!!

As far as the oil pump wearing out due to the minimal back pressure caused by the filter, what about the engines that are pressurized, such as the new burtz engine?

x2.