Oh, Oh! Lorena Babbit?

HoarseWhisperer

HoarseWhisperer

Well-known member
:(

Just changed the oil and look what came out.
Right at the beginning of the season. :mad:

picture.php
 
"This Shouldn't happen to a dog!" Looks expensive $$ in Canada even from down here in Wisconsin.

skip.
 
I feel your pain, Bro. See my earlier message about my rod babbit failure. You'll enjoy, and maybe be enlightened by, the string of posts around the subject. I sure was!

Have you been hearing any unusual sounds coming from the engine? - "knocking, tapping, etc.?"

'Hope the repairs work out OK for you.

Earle
 
Earle, I have been hearing a tapping sound as of late which I probably incorrectly attributed to valve train noise.
Only been in this hobby for about 4 years and I am book read, but sorely lacking mechanical experience.
I can maintain the bolt on's, replace valves, etc., but never have dropped a pan as of yet.
To the best of my knowledge, the engine was re-built in the mid-80's with about 32,000 miles and had been sitting since 1989 (climate controlled garage). I bought it in 2007 with 37,000 and have put on almost 30,000 miles since.
We're booked for French Lick and this couldn't have come at a worse time.

BTW, Earle, I left message for you in the "Model A Trunks" thread, probably about three pages back.
 
HoarseWhisperer said:
Earle, I have been hearing a tapping sound as of late which I probably incorrectly attributed to valve train noise.
Only been in this hobby for about 4 years and I am book read, but sorely lacking mechanical experience.
I can maintain the bolt on's, replace valves, etc., but never have dropped a pan as of yet.
To the best of my knowledge, the engine was re-built in the mid-80's with about 32,000 miles and had been sitting since 1989 (climate controlled garage). I bought it in 2007 with 37,000 and have put on almost 30,000 miles since.
We're booked for French Lick and this couldn't have come at a worse time.

BTW, Earle, I left message for you in the "Model A Trunks" thread, probably about three pages back.
Click to expand...

What I find and, a lot of people don't realize is that after sitting several years these motors need to be completely dismantled and cleaned before running. I probably take apart more motors at one session than most people work on in their lives. Many, many of these motors have been sitting under benches and in barns and cars for years or decades. In almost all of them, when the crank is removed the main tubes are clogged with dried up oil. I find rods that have been stuck to the crank so long, the grooves are etched into the bearing surface so deeply that some are not even able to be ground far enough to be used. If the motor is started before being taken apart and cleaned these rust spots, score the babbitt and will destroy it. Also, the blocked oil passages will soon cause the bearings to be destroyed just as if the engine was run without oil. Rust is not just a problem on rings and lifters or valves. Just because the babbitt won't rust, it will cause failures by being in contact with connecting parts that act as a grinder. Any motor that has sat for more than a year or two, should be dismantled and cleaned before starting to keep this from happening.

Sorry to hear of your problem but I bet this is what happened.
 
Does the engine pound or make any noise? When I bought my 29 Tudor it pounded bad over about 1,200 RPM. I dropped the pan and found similar pieces of babbit. Also found the center main had no babbit remaining.
 
Tom, it’s more of a tapping, than pounding. Perhaps a whole separate issue?

James,
thanks for posting to my issue. What you describe seems like common sense to me now.
When I first acquired the vehicle 3 years ago, all the advice I was getting is “Model A’s can sit for years and fire right up”, which of course it did. As I tried to learn everything I could about the mechanics of a Model A, I had regrets of, “I should have done this, or I shouldn’t have done that.” I suppose I should be grateful of the 30,000 miles I got out of it with my inexperience.
Now, if I would have been a Barner back then, I could have benefited from all the help and experience available here. On the positive side, I can benefit now, as I go about trying to fix and correct my mistakes.
Right now, I am struggling on whether to chance participating in the French Lick mandatory tour (which I have been so looking forward to), or just park it. :(
 
Don't dispair. You have a great opportunity! Now you get to vote with your wallet in The Great Debate: INSERTS OR BABIT? And you can decide once-and-for-all, personally, about light pistons and interior engine coatings and modern oversized valves and adjustable lifters and custom-ground cam shafts. And don't forget that counter-balanced crank shaft!
JOY!
You can probably have 'er done and broken in in plenty of time for French Lick! Plus you'll have bragging rights galore!!!
 
Does anyone have pictures of Babbit? I found two pieces of something in my drain pan a few weeks ago but since I change oil in 4 cars 2 lawn mowers and a roto-tiller so there is no telling. This almost resembled carbon. They are shinney slivers about 1/4" wide by nearly 1/2" long. They had a pressed carbon look where they broke loose. The engine on the old coupe has always knocked.
 
Bruce said:
Don't dispair. You have a great opportunity! Now you get to vote with your wallet in The Great Debate: INSERTS OR BABIT? And you can decide once-and-for-all, personally, about light pistons and interior engine coatings and modern oversized valves and adjustable lifters and custom-ground cam shafts. And don't forget that counter-balanced crank shaft!
JOY!
You can probably have 'er done and broken in in plenty of time for French Lick! Plus you'll have bragging rights galore!!!
Click to expand...

You're absolutley right, Bruce. I realize now that I'm just being selfish in wishing that this wonderful opportunity would have presented itself, say October?
So, Insert or Babbit? :rolleyes:
 
Glad to see these facts clearly stated. How many people do you encounter every year that start up old engines that haven't run for years? I guess there would be some fun in it if you knew you were sure to damage or ruin an engine that might be saveable, but its just as much fun to take one apart BEFORE you ruin it. Or how many people do you encounter per year that "restore" a mechanical part by putting some paint on the outside of it? No reply necassary.
 
This has always been a concern of mine. (Running an old engine after a prolonged Sleep) With my Mod A, I put MMO into the Cylinders, drained the crankcase and refilled it with fuel oil, Cranked it over (Did not start it.) and let it sit for a few days. Redrained it and filled it again with oil and cranked it over some more and let it sit for a few more days. With some cranking each day. Again, I drained the oil ( Still coming out black despite the engine did not start) And refilled it. Finally I felt it was ready to start and procceeded to get her going (after freeing two stuck valves) After it ran a little, I drained the oil again and refilled it. Did I intuitively come close to the proper procedure or was I wide of the mark. I know about rust on the cam and the need for getting it out of the engine ouickly.
Thanks, Terry




James Rogers said:
What I find and, a lot of people don't realize is that after sitting several years these motors need to be completely dismantled and cleaned before running. I probably take apart more motors at one session than most people work on in their lives. Many, many of these motors have been sitting under benches and in barns and cars for years or decades. In almost all of them, when the crank is removed the main tubes are clogged with dried up oil. I find rods that have been stuck to the crank so long, the grooves are etched into the bearing surface so deeply that some are not even able to be ground far enough to be used. If the motor is started before being taken apart and cleaned these rust spots, score the babbitt and will destroy it. Also, the blocked oil passages will soon cause the bearings to be destroyed just as if the engine was run without oil. Rust is not just a problem on rings and lifters or valves. Just because the babbitt won't rust, it will cause failures by being in contact with connecting parts that act as a grinder. Any motor that has sat for more than a year or two, should be dismantled and cleaned before starting to keep this from happening.

Sorry to hear of your problem but I bet this is what happened.
Click to expand...
 
Talked to a Guy several years back and he asked when I change my oil. He said he never has in 20 yrs. He was told by the former owner just to grease it evey time he ran it. GREASE IT? He showed me the grease fitting on the side of the block. (the small plug where some install an oil gauge. I was at a loss for words. How do you respond to that one. I said you been donig that for 20 Yrs? Yep he hit it with a couple of pumps of grease every time he drives it. I cant imagine what it looks like inside that pan.Iceman
 
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