Nov. 1928 engine

[PatrickGrant]

Yesterday I tore into my first Model A motor I thought the motor was junk for years, so I figured I'd wreck this motor learning what not to do on the next one. Well to my surprise after removing the head, valves, and pan I find the motor was rebuilt at some point .010 over. Crank spins nice with very little endplay. connecting rods seem to be snug on the crank. I really wasn't ready for a life changing moment yet !! So now I have to get in gear, get it checked out and back together. Pictures are not real good, but if you see something wrong in there let me know. Dip pan does have at least 1 pin hole and the spring for the pump was busted off bottom cap of pan. Pump was still where it should be with a little hand tightness. I'm going to use plastigage 001-003 to check bearing clearances. Should I pull the pistons to check rings? Looks like the fiber cam is new, but will probably replace with brass or aluminum. Well that's where I'm at, because of all the threads I have read, and just loving the smell of old grease. Thank you Ford Barn'ers for getting me here !!

 

[Synchro909]

That looks very good - do I see hone marks still in the bores? Do I also see a little pitting on some of the valve seats? You might need to redo those.
A word of warning though. Babbit, as it ages gets brittle whether used or not from what I have been told. I haven't had a motor where that might be a problem but I pass it on FYI. I'm sure others will comment further.
All in all, it looks like you lucked out on this one.

 

[PatrickGrant]

No hone marks, Synchro. The bore had some light rust above piston, so I lightly sanded. 3 pistons look great for side clearance one might 20 to 30 thousands out. There is pitting on the valve seats and plan to use new adjustable lifters and valves. Old valves came out fairly tough with 5 stuck open. I will be checking clearance on bearings, is there anyway of checking babbit brittleness? This motor came from the solid mount frame I have now and I think it my be original. I'm going to go on as far as I feel safe, otherwise I will get it fully rebuilt by a pro and sell off stuff to do so.

 

[George Miller]

One thing is you should always keep the parts in the same location. Valves go back to the same hole they came from. valve guides stay together as a pair and go back in the same hole they came from. Main caps same rotation as they were and same place. Same for all parts in a engine.

 

[PatrickGrant]

Thank you George, that is something I don't think i'll every have (very disorganized normally), but on this I have to be ! I'm in the process of selling a beautiful rebuilt motor today, to get some cash to fix this engine up. When Santa gave out brains I thought he said trains and I already had one

 

[Tom Wesenberg]

From the looks of the pulley I'd say it was a good engine that someone let set out. I'd remove the pulley and sandblast and paint it. Sand the rust off the crank gear, remove the pistons, and give the cylinders a very light hone. Then check the ring end gap to check for wear. Be sure to mark the forward side of each piston. You can scratch a very light small arrow facing forward, if there isn't already some mark.

Be sure the shims are also kept exactly where they are located to each rod. Clean the pistons, rings, and grooves. If the ring end gaps are too much then don't bother cleaning them, just replace them, which is what most people would do anyway.

Be sure the block is thoroughly cleaned before assembling the parts. Your valve seats don't look overly wide, like a lot of Model A engines have. Sure looks like a light hone and cleaning will have it back in working order. I see you have the 5 bearing cam, but the 2nd and 4th bearings may be factory rough undercut to make the cam easier to install.

Now, the million dollar question. Why sell a rebuilt engine and use the money to rebuild another engine? Frame and engine numbers matching?

 

[PatrickGrant]

So excited about yesterday Tom. Engine is period ( *641---*) for the solid mount and has correct front mounting case. I believe it is the original engine for the frame. I can't read any numbers on the frame, but I pretty sure nothing was done to it in 80 years The car frame horn, front crossmember were bent from an accident. Front crossmember replaced with a 30's vintage with new style motor mount. Components of the frame showed little wear, except for some pitting. Engine is bored only .010 over and only 1 piston has a tad to much clearance. There was a small hole in the dip tray and I'm thinking that might be the piston that suffered. I'm going to check when I get to the shop and then I'm going to try building your spring spreader with junk I got laying around. The rebuilt motor needs to go to someone who is going to drive distances. I just need to get to town for coffee and make it to the point on our hill. Not enough thanks can go out to all you guys. I tend to trip on my words some and hope this is a forgiving site. Think fast and talk slow, she said !! P.S. You ever hear of Lincoln Johnson?

 

[Tom Wesenberg]

P.S. You ever hear of Lincoln Johnson?

Never heard of him.

 

[Jim Brierley]

You can't tell how much piston clearance you have with the pistons installed, by feel is not a good measurement. I would re-ring it, not sure if you can buy +.010 rings, if not get +.020 and file the ends if necessary.

 

[rocket1]

Looks like a 5 bearing camshaft in a 3 bearing engine,or is that a b cam fuel pump eccentric?

 

[Art Newland]

Engines are like a box of chocolates... so exciting to see what is in there!
How much shim material is still in it?

 

[100IH]

Anyone notice that the head of one of the pistons is burned away? The compression ring is exposed. I also see what makes me think that the engine has been sleeved, not a bad thing in my opinion. Sometimes even pictures can lead us astray. It's what I see.

 

[Brian T]

Anyone notice that the head of one of the pistons is burned away? The compression ring is exposed. I also see what makes me think that the engine has been sleeved, not a bad thing in my opinion. Sometimes even pictures can lead us astray. It's what I see.

I think what you see is water or oil that as run onto the piston, what looks like the ring is just an illusion.

 

[Tom Wesenberg]

Anyone notice that the head of one of the pistons is burned away? The compression ring is exposed. I also see what makes me think that the engine has been sleeved, not a bad thing in my opinion. Sometimes even pictures can lead us astray. It's what I see.

If you mean the dark area on piston 3, that is just oil with dirt and rust in it.
At first I thought I was looking at pits in #2 piston, until I looked closer and saw it was water.

 

[PatrickGrant]

How would I tell if it were sleeved ? From the bottom, possibly top? 5 cam bearings in this engine, looks like more reading. B drive? chocolates ? and yes a little top piston melt/burn, great eyes. That is the only piston you can see the ring. Looks like I need pistons, rings, adj. lifters, valves, one piece valve guides, gaskets. This engine I'm getting to like more and more ! All it wants to do is get out of this valley and make it to the top of the hill with me ! or vise versa. Dip tray had 2 small holes in the bottom of 2 trays. Looks to be an easy tack weld or ? Oil pan had a few pits inside, Jb weld and paint the inside like I've read hear ? Well the paint part anyway. Just read some comments about seeing the rings in the photos and I can't, but you can on the engine. I will take a better picture of that tomorrow.

 

[PatrickGrant]

Learned from D.J. that I do have a five bearing cam, only in a three bearing engine. Could possibly trade it for a new 3 bearing.

 

[Tom Wesenberg]

Learned from D.J. that I do have a five bearing cam, only in a three bearing engine. Could possibly trade it for a new 3 bearing.

Just keep it since that's the way it came from the factory.

 

[Greg Jones]

Coincidentally, or otherwise, I knew Lincoln Johnson who rebuilt all kinds of motors. He was the go to guy where I used to live-if you had one of his motors you had the best. Dare I ask why you bring him up?

 

[PatrickGrant]

Greg, I just sold the last motor he built before he died in 2014. I picked it up from Steve Freeman, his friend, in Centralia, Wa. I have too many motors to let a great one sit, so I just sold it tonight to a gentleman Ford Barner. I'm very pleased where it went and I think Lincoln would be OK with it too. Here's his Obituary-- Lincoln Johnson passed away peacefully on Sept. 2, 2014, at Liberty Country Place in Centralia, Washington. Lincoln was born to Walter and Evelena Johnson on Feb. 12, 1915 in Decatur, Illinois. He was the last living sibling of 11 children. He married Eduth Louise Johnson on April 11, 1936.
Lincoln was, by all accounts, a master mechanic. All who knew him had a deep respect for his skills at making a rusty, broken vintage motor look and run as good as new! He could look over a pile of old engine parts, identify each one and explain the value. His skills, as good as they were, were not the only thing his friends admired about him. Lincoln was a family man first and a generous friend second. He could be as kind as one could ever imagine and as tough as nails when needed. Lincoln was a friend to many and will surely be missed by all.
Lincoln was preceded in death by his wife, Louise; his youngest child, Carolyn; and his 10 brothers and sisters.
He is survived by his sons, Herb (Carol), Jim (Sally), Richard (Karen) and Chuck (Judy); 12 grandchildren; nine great-grandchildren; and numerous nephews and nieces.
Lincoln and Louise will be privately interred at Alpha Cemetery in Onalaska, Washington. A celebration of life will be held Saturday, Oct. 11, 2014 at 1:00 p.m. at Fords Prairie Grange, 2640 W. Reynolds, Centralia, WA 98531

 

[PatrickGrant]

Tbird, it was froze up when I bought it. The chopped sedan in my avatar is the car it was in. Paid too much and drove too far to get it ! The trip is one of the best memories I have. Money well spent ? Planned to put my 28 PU on the frame, with another engine I had. Now my plans are all screwed up and my wife is watching It's all you Ford Barners fault too