Non detergent 40W

F

fordfixer

Senior Member
Wentot Farm and Fleet to pick up some more non detergent 40w motor oil. They don't carry it anymore. They only have 30w non detergent. Got to find another supply.
 
Had the same problem. Couldn't find a local source. Someone on Ford Barn suggested I remove the oil pan and tappet cover and clean out all the old sludge. I did that and while I had the engine open I adjusted the main and rod shims and checked the tappet clearance. Re-assembled and installed a full flow oil filter system and started using detergent oil. That was excellent advise because I now have a clean engine and no trouble finding the oil I need.
 
i dont understand using old tech ! i run vr-1 valvoline racing oil (20-50) (zddp) . it has all you need & keeps it clean .............. steve
 
I second running VR-1 racing oil with ZDDP. It's not frothing up like a washing machine in the oil pan like some people think will happen with detergent oil. And the ZDDP is adding protection to hard parts.

I'll take not ruining the tappets over "what if the oil gets foamy"
 
Not all of our club members run the modern oils. They just don't what to drop the pans and clean them out or they just prefer what was used when the car was new. I myself run 10/40w. But I started when the engine was rebuilt. Not everyone has a rebuilt engine. If I got it at Farm and Fleet it was only about 2 dollars a quart. Not all parts stores carry the non detergent either. Then you pay 4 to 5 dollars a quart. I only threw this out for information. Jon
 
Non detergent oil is quickly going the way of the DO DO BIRD. Not enough people using it to justify the manufacture or it. Companies want stock to move, not sit on a shelf.
 
your gonna find 30w for some time because it is used in vacuum pumps and it's just considered "raw 30w" so they run off said amount before adding anything.
 
I never did think this was a real post but I bit abs answered.

Notice how it was never asked;

Where can i find 40w oil?
Can I use other oil?
Can I use detergent oil?
Can i use another weight?

This was just to start up the oil debate once again!
 
QUOTE “Wentot Farm and Fleet to pick up some more non detergent 40w motor oil. They don't carry it anymore. They only have 30w non detergent. Got to find another supply.” QUOTE

QUOTE “Not all of our club members run the modern oils. They just don't what to drop the pans and clean them out or they just prefer what was used when the car was new. I myself run 10/40w. But I started when the engine was rebuilt. Not everyone has a rebuilt engine. If I got it at Farm and Fleet it was only about 2 dollars a quart. Not all parts stores carry the non detergent either. Then you pay 4 to 5 dollars a quart. I only threw this out for information. Jon “ QUOTE

I'm confused.
 
MAG said:
I'm confused.
Click to expand...

Why are you confused? The fact is that ANY oil today is FAR superior to any oil back in the day.

You can use ANY oil at least 30 wt, detergent, non detergent, synthic, multi-weight and it will work fine.

If you don't believe me please have a model A engine builder (one that does it for a living) post here that he has had a running engine fail due to changing the oil from detergent to non-detergent or single grade to multi grade.

When I bought my car it was running on straight non detergent 50W oil. After changing to a multi weight detergent oil the engine ran several more years until a valve went.
 
Wow, why is everyone getting their pantys all wadded up for? This was just a note to say that 40w non detergent is getting harder to find.
 
There is a "non-detergent" alternative if you want to jump the hoops.

Personally I'm in the camp for using contemporary oils, with the adjustment for zinc anti-wear where appropriate. The fear of dispersants in older engines is misunderstood, but the whizzin' contest makes it not worth discussion.

If you seek a wholesale/commercial oil distributor you can get "turbine oil" (although it could be labeled differently so you'd have to ask) in an ISO 150 grade for the SAE 40 equivalent, ISO 100 for SAE 30. Turbine oils are basically base oil with anti-rust additive, maybe some anti-foam, and no detergent or anti-wear additive. Virtually the same formulation of the old "non-detergent" oils. Not likely to be in packageing less than 5 gal bucket, but if you're diehard you'll figure it out. "Compressor oil" would be one example of alternative packageing, but I'd want to check the data sheet because that's a loose term in some circles.
 
Last edited:
I would take the oil filter of the engine be for to long. When you run with one of those on it will starve the front valves and I have seen vale guides pulled out of the engine when it gets hot. If you just think about how the oil works at that point you will see it for your self. Thanks
 
lol, i might as well stir the pot a little more, how come the subject of detergent oils being bad for the babbit, its been said it destroys it
 
I'll stir it a bit too. :)
It's unlikely the zddp reduction will make any difference to a stock A engine with original cam, lifters and springs.
First, the stock A springs are so weak they put little pressure on the cam.
Second, Henry made parts in his own foundries, and he was very concious of the quality, unlike modern parts made from chinese powder-iron. His original cams had a good Rockwell hardness rating (I fergit what it was) compared to say, an aftermarket cam for a small block Chev. Even cams from todays reputable cam grinders may or may not be ground on inferior chinese billets. If replacing the cam, it would pay to directly ask the grinder (not the supplier, they wont know) where his billets are made, US or china.
Third, Model A and flathead V8 engines were clocking up many miles before zddp started being added to oil, which I believe was after WWII (someone may want to correct me on that?)
Will I add zddp to my detergent oil? Damn right... better safe than sorry. :D:D:D
I believe Kendall 20w-50w still contains about 1200ppm zddp, as well as the Valvoline racing oil, and is probably a better oil to use. Racing oils are made to be replaced very frequently, and while they contain high levels of zddp, they miss out on the additives necessary for prolonged street use, such as anti varnishing, particulate suspension and so on.
I'd stay away from racing oils, but then of course there will be some who have used it for ever in their As, their tractors, their PT cruisers and swear by it. That's the nature of a contentious issue.
As I said earlier... use zddp? Dont use zddp? It's cheap and better safe than sorry.
 
ford1 said:
lol, i might as well stir the pot a little more, how come the subject of detergent oils being bad for the babbit, its been said it destroys it
Click to expand...


I've not heard that theory until I just read it here.

I know for a fact that ethylene-glycol (anti-freeze) most definitely attacks babbit, and getting anti-freeze into the oil will quickly wipe-out all the bearings in an engine. But that's a story for another thread.


For as long as I've been playing around with old cars and trucks ( over 40 years), the consistent concern I've heard expressed regarding use of detergent oils in old "non-detergent" engines was that the detergent would "bust loose all that old sludge and it will plug-up oil passages / galleries". Much of this came from various gear-head uncles who grew-up with Model T and Model A Fords, and lived right on through the advent of Mutli-vis and detergent oils.

Another concern I hear voiced among old engine circles is that detergent oils "keep all that crud in suspension" (which is true) "and that crud is constantly circulating and scouring the innards of the engine", where as with Non-detergent oils, the heavier contaminants will settle-out of the oil, and accumulate "harmlessly" in the bottom of the crankcase (as "sludge").

As for detergent oil itself attacking babbit, I don't believe that could be the case, as modern insert bearings still use a layer of babbit as the bearing surface.


Now, folks who collect and restore antique electric fans (and other old electric motors) maintain that detergent oils will clog the pores in porous bronze bushings, and that only non-detergent oil should be used in bronze bearings / bushings. I have also heard this from guys in the motor re-winding business.

We definitely know how non-detergent oils behave in automobile engines.

Sucessful use of detergent oil in a sludgy old engine, is less clear...
I think there's a greater risk of sludgy bits blocking an oil passage in the gravity/splash system of the Ford than in cars with pressurized oiling systems.

I see no reason not to use modern detergent, multi-viscosity oil ("the best you can buy") in a CLEAN engine; it will prevent the accumulation of sludge, especially in engines that run short trips and never get hot enough for long enough to "Boil" unburned fuel & other contaminants out of the oil.

For what it's worth, when I got my '41 De Soto, 14 years ago, it was just (another) tired old jalopy - 74,000 miles, knocking rods & slapping pistons, stuck valve, no brakes, etc. I got it cleaned-up and re-braked, freed the gummy valve, and have proceeded to put about 40,000 miles on it since then. I have run detergent oil in it since I got it. Never had the pan down. Valve chambers weren't too sludgy when I was in there...
Has an oil filter (partial flow).

It's still going... has 104,000 miles on it presently, still knocking, still smoking, but has not gotten appreciably worse in 40,000 miles of running.

It also has full-pressure lubrication (not gravity/splash) and insert bearings, so even when the engine (finally!) gets its rebuild, it won't need to be sent away for an expensive babbit job, like my A or my Stovebolt Chevys.

For the time being, I am using SAE-30 Non-Detergent in my tired-old 81,000 mile '28 Ford. When I get the engine re-done, I will use modern, detergent oil in it. Perhaps I will use straight-weight, but definitely detergent.

Your results may vary...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top