No Title 29 Tudor

the29ismine

the29ismine

New member
Hi all, I am purchasing a 1929 Ford. (Tudor.) I love the car and it is on a new hand built chassis. It has a 1963 283, 40 ford wheels, Coker (Firestone)tall bias-ply tires, a new rear end going in (being installed by previous owner) and little else except a real nice original 1929 body. I have the original motor number which I'm told matches the old chassis number. The old chassis is not available. The owner gave the original motor away. It has no title. I am in Denver Colorado. I need to get a title. With the motor number and the obviously original body, can I get a lost title? The car has a long way to go but I want to title it now before it's finished so I can proceed comfortably. (Colorado titles cars to the year they most closely resemble) Can someone guide me here? I need the help.. Very best regards and Thank you.
 
Don't know how it works in Colorado, but here in Alaska the only one who can apply for a "Lost" Title is the Registered Owner who "Lost" It.

I had to purchase a 3 year Bond and show DMV the assembled car with the Matching Engine Number from my Bill of Sale for my Canadian Phaeton.

Find someone in Colorado who has been through the gauntlet for advice.

Around here, I certainly would not show it to DMV prior to doing my research on what is acceptable for obtaining a Title.

Good luck, in the long run, you won't regret doing it the right way.

Darryl in Fairbanks
 
the29ismine said:
Hi all, I am purchasing a 1929 Ford. (Tudor.) I love the car and it is on a new hand built chassis. It has a 1963 283, 40 ford wheels, Coker (Firestone)tall bias-ply tires, a new rear end going in (being installed by previous owner) and little else except a real nice original 1929 body. I have the original motor number which I'm told matches the old chassis number. The old chassis is not available. The owner gave the original motor away. It has no title. I am in Denver Colorado. I need to get a title. With the motor number and the obviously original body, can I get a lost title? The car has a long way to go but I want to title it now before it's finished so I can proceed comfortably. (Colorado titles cars to the year they most closely resemble) Can someone guide me here? I need the help.. Very best regards and Thank you.
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Wow, not really sure you are on the right forum with your vehicle but lets look at this objectively and see if we can help you. In 1929 the Dept of Mtr. Vehicles said the number stamped on the engine would be the vehicle identification number. That number was also stamped into the frame when the corresponding engine was installed into the chassis. The body type or style was a moot point as far as registration goes as they identifying mark was that number issued by the manufacturer.

Realistically you are wanting to use a number that legally does not belong to you if I am understanding you correctly. Maybe a better way to ask this is, how do you know the person that now owns that engine does not have plans to use it and the number stamped onto it for his own car?

While I am not legal council, to me you would have difficulty proving to me exactly what you legally own and why you feel you are entitled to a "lost title". Theoretically from a legal stand point, your frame does not represent what the 1929 Ford frame would have been, nor does your engine match any paperwork or VIN that would be associated with a 1929 Ford. Based on what I would feel comfortable with, I would think that honesty would be the best policy, ...and as I am viewing your picture and your description, to me what you have is an 'assembled vehicle' that very much fits the stereotypical Hot Rod. If I am overlooking something, please forgive me but why not just call it what it is, tell your DMV the truth, and follow their legal protocol to obtain the proper title?

.EDIT: I guess I need to start typing faster so as to quit repeating what the other guys typed while I was watching TV and answering this. :D
 
Thank you. That's helpful. If the motor or chassis number are not being used, are the numbers mine? The rebuilders title may be an option as long as I can title it a 29. Hope so. I will follow-up here. Frustrating.. Find the car I have wanted for so long and of course something has to complicate it! Such is life!
Thanks again.
 
the29ismine said:
Thank you. That's helpful. If the motor or chassis number are not being used, are the numbers mine? The rebuilders title may be an option as long as I can title it a 29. Hope so. I will follow-up here. Frustrating.. Find the car I have wanted for so long and of course something has to complicate it! Such is life!
Thanks again.
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No, not really. They are the property of the last registered owner of whom the vehicle is legally registered in, --or who holds the Title. Being brutally honest with you, you do not possess anything that legally entitles you to register that as a motor vehicle. A Bill of Sale is not recognized for this purpose.

One other point, what makes your car a 1929? Originally the Manufacturers Certificate of Origin was given to the dealer and a Title was issued once the vehicle was sold. The date on that title could have either been the date the vehicle was initially sold, OR (as in most cases) the year in which the vehicle was assembled. Your vehicle really was not assembled in 1929 because you are using misc parts to make up the assembly. In my view, your vehicle is really a 2012 Homebuilt or Assembled Vehicle. If it still retained the original frame along with that body, AND you retained the original VIN and Title, I feel it can ethically be considered a 1929 that has been modified, but as Kevin eluded to, really all you have is a extensive selection of misc parts from different manufacturers.
 
dont know about there, but in arkansas you dont have to have a title on an antique, just a bill of sale, check your state too
 
CONTACT YOUR LOCAL DMD OFFICE AND SEE WHAT THEY REQUIRE, not here where you're going to get 50 different answers. Like Brent says, you got nothing, and will probably end up registering it as a composit, 2012, which is going to affect your ins and taxes and what mit's going to be worth (less) to someone else if you decide to sell. JMO Here in CT if vehicle over 20-25 yrs old they don't issue new titles. Cars sold with bill of sale.

Paul in CT
 
Just to add to this Bill of Sale so we are all clear, Tennessee (along with several other states I have been told) requires vehicles coming from states where Titles are not issued (i.e.: Ark, GA, CT, etc.) require not only a Bill of Sale, but also require a current license plate registration for that vehicle. The Bill of Sale shows there has been a legal exchange from the Seller to the Buyer however the license registration is in essence the Certificate of Title/Ownership that is forfeited to the state in which will be issuing a Title to the new owner.

Has anyone else experienced this requirement of both documents with their state?
 
In short, my friend, it sounds like you've got your *** in a wringer. :p But I'm sure you will work it out...
 
Other options buy a basket case 29 with a title then you have a title and some spare parts or although not legal you could buy a title and hope some else is not using that number. It use to be simple to just buy a title but in todays world with computers its not as easy to just slip some paperwork past a clerk and be done.
 
Here in Va., you need a title:eek:. No title, I ain't buying it no matter what it is or looks like. Looks like another 29' A has gone down the crapper:(. Thank the owner (who ever that is) for increasing the value of my 29'A:).

Joe,,,
 
I have made the mistake of thinking a deal was so good that I would restore without a title ...not one time ...but twice! It's mistake. It is possible to get a title in Texas through a process with the local county tax accessor-collector called a tax-title hearing. I did this one time successfully...but too much time and work with "your hat in your hand".
 
Aok said:
Other options buy a basket case 29 with a title then you have a title and some spare parts or although not legal you could buy a title and hope some else is not using that number. It use to be simple to just buy a title but in todays world with computers its not as easy to just slip some paperwork past a clerk and be done.
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You know, I am not singling you out specifically because many others appear to be guilty of this too (I have read this same advice countless of times on a sister site), but isn't there a possibility this is why our society is in the state of affairs that it is? Does no one have a conscience for what is right or wrong any more when it comes to legality? Tim Kelley is spot-on with regard to what Boyd was doing simply because it was illegal, and Boyd knew it was. What is SO wrong about just following the "proper" (i.e.: legal) method for obtaining a title for such a car? Who cares if it has 2012 Assembled Vehicle listed on the title?? When people view the craftsmanship of this vehicle, they don't care what the YOM or the listed Make is. If they did, I must say I have never had anyone ask me "What year does your title say your car is?" When the29ismine ever chooses to sell his car, if a potential purchaser decides to pass on the purchase solely because of the date on the title, well that is OK too because someone (just like this buyer did), will want this car solely for what it is. Us promoting or using deceptive methods (i.e.: illegal) for obtaining something (especially for something that is just a hobby) just seems to me to be morally wrong. Therefore why are we even travelling down this road?

Am I am way off base with this mindset?? .
 
The hot rod forum (another board) has a wiki just for those who wish to title their pile of assorted parts. It varies by states and some states want to see proof of paying taxes for the parts you bought. You then might also have to buy a bond in case the car turns up stolen.

Keep in mind that some states are getting tricky. Recently, in NJ more than one car titled with say a 1930 Model A title has been pulled when they check and find out it is a hot rod.

So you must turn to your state to see what they want.

Looks like CO is not so bad to deal with and here is there website.

http://www.dmv.org/co-colorado/custom-built-cars.php
 
I know in some states you can title a kit car as a 1955 Porsche, or 1953 MGTD, etc.
You must get the state to issue a VIN for the kit car, but you can call it whatever you want. Check your local laws. Seems like you don't have a Model A VIN to work with, so why not get a new state VIN?
 
Although it may not apply here. There is no good reason for an 80 year old or any pre war antique car that has legitimately lost it’s paperwork trail from not being able to be legitimately retitled. Most all states have no process for retitling antique autos. This in my opinion is extremely detrimental to the preservation of antique autos in this country as most of these autos end up becoming a pile of parts. This is a ball that most auto clubs across the nation have seemed to have dropped somewhere along the line with their politicians.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
You know, I am not singling you out specifically because many others appear to be guilty of this too (I have read this same advice countless of times on a sister site), but isn't there a possibility this is why our society is in the state of affairs that it is? Does no one have a conscience for what is right or wrong any more when it comes to legality? Tim Kelley is spot-on with regard to what Boyd was doing simply because it was illegal, and Boyd knew it was. What is SO wrong about just following the "proper" (i.e.: legal) method for obtaining a title for such a car? Who cares if it has 2012 Assembled Vehicle listed on the title?? When people view the craftsmanship of this vehicle, they don't care what the YOM or the listed Make is. If they did, I must say I have never had anyone ask me "What year does your title say your car is?" When the29ismine ever chooses to sell his car, if a potential purchaser decides to pass on the purchase solely because of the date on the title, well that is OK too because someone (just like this buyer did), will want this car solely for what it is. Us promoting or using deceptive methods (i.e.: illegal) for obtaining something (especially for something that is just a hobby) just seems to me to be morally wrong. Therefore why are we even travelling down this road?

Am I am way off base with this mindset?? .
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Everyone has to make there own decisions of what is correct for them. Many states make it difficult to obtain titles for older vehicles since they have no idea what is involved nor could care about your restoration they only want to collect fees and get any vehicle off the road that is not environmentally friendly. So sometimes using a different title is a work around to this problem. Sorry if I offended you but I just see things in a different light.
 
Buy an open 28-29 title for a Ford, Chevy, Buick, Olds or anything else and put those #'s on your sedan and be done with it.. It's already a hot rod and as long as you can get license and insurance on it with whatever title you use you should be fine.. All the late 20's cars looked sorta the same anyway.. How many bodies were changed on old cars years ago.. Farmers wanted trucks, hor rodders wanted roadsters, etc.. They threw the bodies of one type away and put another type on that frame.. That said, do what you feel comfortable with......
 
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