New to forum

orangedog

orangedog

Member
Joined the forum today, but I've been reading awhile now. The info available here is priceless. The 54 Customline in my avitar is new to me as of end of Feb. I rewired with a painless kit. Now I'm working on, why won't this work issues. Primarily water temp and gas gauges. But that's the joy of old cars, right?
 
Welcome to the Barn ! I like your '54 Customline coupe. I almost bought one like that a long time ago, same color too. Until I realized it was loaded with bondo.

Sal
 
Welcome to the forum!! There is lots of knowledge shared here to help you sort your problems.
 
Welcome aboard. I find a great deal of pleasre helping old car nuts keep their sanity. Anything we can do to help is good for all involved.
 
I'm not as sure on cars produced after the flathead era but many FoMoCo products used King Seeley current based systems for fuel quantity and coolant temperature. If a person replaces the senders with a different resistance based part then it won't function like it should. The replacement parts for the KS senders are crap for the most part. The original parts were very reliable and last a long time but good NOS or used ones are getting harder to find. If a person changes them over to resistance type systems then the indicator should also be changed to match the resistance level for proper calibration and accuracy of the system. If a car had an oil pressure gauge then it also may be affected but many just have the warning light.
 
Welcome to the Forum. Some great guys here w/lots of patience. If you have a maintenance problem, it will help to post a picture of it. Happy motoring!
 
orangedog said:
Joined the forum today, but I've been reading awhile now. The info available here is priceless. The 54 Customline in my avitar is new to me as of end of Feb. I rewired with a painless kit. Now I'm working on, why won't this work issues. Primarily water temp and gas gauges. But that's the joy of old cars, right?
Click to expand...

rotorwrench said:
I'm not as sure on cars produced after the flathead era but many FoMoCo products used King Seeley current based systems for fuel quantity and coolant temperature. If a person replaces the senders with a different resistance based part then it won't function like it should. The replacement parts for the KS senders are crap for the most part. The original parts were very reliable and last a long time but good NOS or used ones are getting harder to find. If a person changes them over to resistance type systems then the indicator should also be changed to match the resistance level for proper calibration and accuracy of the system. If a car had an oil pressure gauge then it also may be affected but many just have the warning light.
Click to expand...
orangedog,
A couple diagrams of the fuel gauge circuit and hardware to help explain the differences.

Image 1. The pre '57 King/Seeley setup.
It uses bi-metal contacts in both the Sender and Gauge to create the current flow & heat that moves the gauge needle.
You can see by their design that they are not polarity sensitive.
The oem gauge and sender pairs are generally not voltage sensitive either, as the heat/bi-metal contact design is self-limiting in current flow.

Image 2. The '57(+) fuel gauge.
It uses a variable resistor in the Sender instead of bi-metal contacts.

I suspect the gauge & sender parts for '54 and '55 are the same.

In '56 the gauges, senders and their electrical specs were slightly redesigned for the change to 12 volt systems, and are one-year-only parts.
The '56 Senders may look the same as the earlier ones but aren't, with any luck they're marked "12v". photo 3
The dashboard gauges in full-sized Fords changed in appearance for '56.

In '57 the gauges and senders were re-designed again; in physical size, appearance and electrical specs.

Individual parts from each group won't work correctly with parts from the other groups. And as rotorwrench mentioned, the individual "new/replacement" style parts rarely work if mixed in the same circuit with oem or nos parts.
.
 

Attachments

  • 'King Seeley' fuel gauge diagram c.jpg
    'King Seeley' fuel gauge diagram c.jpg
    72.2 KB · Views: 8
  • '57 fuel gauge circuit 2 c.jpg
    '57 fuel gauge circuit 2 c.jpg
    47.4 KB · Views: 8
  • '56 Temp sender.jpg
    '56 Temp sender.jpg
    66.4 KB · Views: 1
Last edited:
Welcome to the forum. I also have a '54 that I rewired last year...maintained 6 volt, but used negative ground as opposed to the factory positive. I used a generic and basic Ron Francis kit, which was affordable and generally good quality.

Nevertheless, even though I took my time on the rewire, was thorough and encountered no major issues after the job was completed, I still had 2 or 3 minor electrical "mysteries" as I like to call them. Two of these were the temp and fuel gauges not working.

The temp was a bigger mystery, because it worked before the rewire. It was my intent to replace everything electrical...so I replaced the sender, but from what Rotorwrench says above, that may actually be the cause of my issue. No big deal because the aftermarket mechanical gauge I put in is much more accurate and reliable than the original electrical gauge.

In my opinion, the proper way to view/evaluate an original electrical temp gauge in a '54 Ford is to figure out to what extent it's deceiving you, because it is deceiving you, even when working "properly." I thought my car was running on the hot side for many years based on the original temp gauge readings. When I put my mech gauge in (which I tested for accuracy before installing) I found that the car was actually running cool, depending on the ambient temp. Sure enough, the thermostat wasn't closing correctly. Replaced it, and no problem afterwards.
 
Welcome to the site. This is an old post I saved from another site regarding the King Seeley gauges. The member bergmanj doesn't post much anymore (I think he retired and only has a dial up connection) but it contains some interesting info on calibrating the gauges.

The other item I'd add, is check all the grounds. Time and corrosion often cause a problem on that side. Not just the gas gauge, but taillights etc.


http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic22135-1.aspx
 
I am curious, was that car offered for sale over on the HAMB in the classified's ? if so I bought a 3x2 set up from him back in Dec., in my opinion , was not quite as advertised
 
Here's a photo of the original '55 Ford fuel sending unit. The '54 part is probably same.
 

Attachments

  • 19-1.JPG
    19-1.JPG
    108.3 KB · Views: 17
Thank you all for your replies. I didn't expect such a response.


Alaska Jim I bought the car in Fort White Fl. from add on craigslist.



The car has a 85 5.0 and ADO(Lincoln). I have gotten the gas gauge to register(may need to calibrate the gauge). I installed a resistor type sender from Dennis Carpenter that is suppose to be a replacement sender.



My temp gauge is on the way to be repaired. It should be good to go when it comes back.


My first project after getting the car home was to replace the wiring system.
Just came back from the tire shop, replaced those 20 yr. old wide white wall.



I'll work on posting pictures.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top