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ryan69veedub

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My father and myself have recently started restoration on a 36 sedan that he bought when he was 14 and still owns. Long story short the original engine has been found to be junk after a trip to the machine shop. I am told that the engine is a later 36 due to a design that uses bearings and needs to be replaced as it can not be saved. The machine shop found some cracks on the deck surface after they sleeved 3 of the cylinders and say that this can not be repaired. I located an engine from a 37 locally (northwest Ohio) and my question is if this is a valid option. Any help or advise is appreciated, I am really new to the flathead world and am trying to learn as I go.
 
You can use the '37 engine by blocking off the place where the water pumps go on the '37 and using the '36 heads and water pumps. The '37 engine has 21 head bolt studs just like the '36 (be sure to check to verify it is a '37 engine)). These block off plates were available from Ford and show up on EBAY as well as with dealers. I would recommend holing out for the correct engine but that may just be me. Any chance the shop just can't find the parts they need and the engine could be rebuilt if you find the parts?

Charlie Stephens
 
Why did the machine shop do the sleeves if the deck was cracked. I would not be happy with a machine shop like that.
 
The "late '36" 21 stud engines were known as "LB" blocks (which I've been told stands for "loose bearing"), i.e. they had insert main bearings and are generally considered to be superior to the earlier blocks with babbitted main bearings. If your block is cracked, however, your machine shop is probably correct that you need to look for another. A '37 block can be used, although on the '37's, the water pumps were relocated from the heads to the front of the block to reduce cavitation and thereby improve cooling. You will thus have to find "blanking plates" to fill the space which would otherwise be covered by the '37 water pumps. You see such plates on e-Bay from time to time. My impression is they are not too hard to find. Or, if you don't care about retaining the "'36 look" you could just go with the complete '37 engine which has the water outlet in the middle of the head, as opposed to the front of the head, and get the full benefit of the better cooling system. Or, you could look for a good 24 stud engine like a 59AB ('46-'48) and have an all-around better engine.
 
If memory serves me correctly, the later 21 stud and onwards water pump mounting heights are different to the earlier engines. Ford used a U shaped spacer to prop up the engines. I can't remember if it was later engine in an earlier car needed them, or the other way around.
 
Okay i've found my information from last time this came up. The early pump in head engines mounted lower than the later ones. When Ford dealerships had cars come in and they replaced the engines with a 21 stud pump in block, or later 24 stud.. they used these mounts.

41A-6023%201933-1934-FORD%20ENGINE%20MOUNT%20RISERS%20ADAPTERS.jpg


Repros can be found here: http://lbcunited.com/earlyford2/product_info.php/cPath/86_267/products_id/6249?osCsid=7e50eb29272b3fb05e14530afad793e3
 
The '37-'48 engines with water pumps in block will fit right in his '36 without the need for those "U" shaped spacers. The '34 and earlier V8 vehicles required those spacers when swapping to the later FH engines.
 
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Ryan, welcome to the Fordbarn. This will be a great project for you and your dad to work on together. Don't hesitate to ask questions here along the way.

I have no idea how well your machine shop really knows these Flathead engines, but it may be a good idea to get another opinion on your block. Also, I have known some machine shops that thought they knew how to build Flatheads and where actually the source of the screw up and then claimed the block was no good to begin with.
If you really do need to use a different engine, you should consider how original you want to restore your car. If you are trying to build a high point show car, you will want to use an engine ('35-'36) with a block that looks identical to your original. If you are not trying to build a high point show car, the '37 to early '38, 21 stud engines are an excellent choice with either water pumps in head or in block. The later 24 stud engines from late '38-'48 are also an excellent choice. The '49-'53 engines will also work well but require a few additional components to make them fit.
Good luck with your project!!
 
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welcome to the 'Barn....got pics of your project....and of the engine??....there are a few engine experts on here that might be able to help you with the '36 engine....otherwise, what JM said....and yep, we do love pics here....good luck.....Mike
 
Yes welcome, JM has it covered very well. I suggest you find someonr in your area that is more familiar with this type engine. Might be an early ford club around.As for the machine shop??? Nobody puts sleeves in a cracked block and then decides it's no good. I'd have allot of trouble paying for it.
 
ryan69veedub said:
My father and myself have recently started restoration on a 36 sedan that he bought when he was 14 and still owns. Long story short the original engine has been found to be junk after a trip to the machine shop. I am told that the engine is a later 36 due to a design that uses bearings and needs to be replaced as it can not be saved. The machine shop found some cracks on the deck surface after they sleeved 3 of the cylinders and say that this can not be repaired. I located an engine from a 37 locally (northwest Ohio) and my question is if this is a valid option. Any help or advise is appreciated, I am really new to the flathead world and am trying to learn as I go.
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I would like you to post pictures of the cracks. There is a chance that they may be the ones that are by the studs- the ones that EVERY Ford flathead has -and everyone ignores.

Karl
 
Dave/Green Bay said:
Ryan: Depending where the cracks are there is also the possibility that they could be pinned. Dave/Green Bay
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Karl Wolf said:
I would like you to post pictures of the cracks. There is a chance that they may be the ones that are by the studs- the ones that EVERY Ford flathead has -and everyone ignores.

Karl
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With today's welding technology and pinning that block could be savable. If the cracks are the type Karl refers to you may not have a real problem. One of the members (Mart) saved a block by welding a pan rail crack. These are usually considered fatal. Do some more research before scrapping the block. 3 sleeves are already in it.
 
The machine shop is an hour away, I may get out there this week and see if I can get pictures. The cracks run from the stud holes to the wall where the sleeves were installed. The guy I talked to mentioned that they could have welded it if they had found it before the sleeves were installed but that they can't repair it now that it is sleeved. Everyone I asked locally pointed me towards this shop but I'm starting to think maybe it would be best to get a second opinion, is there a shop in Ohio, Michigan, or anywhere nearby that anyone can recommend? I'm going to take a look at the other engine tomorrow, it was removed from a 37 but according to the seller it's a 24 stud so I'm really wondering if it's some kind if a can of worms as far as what was already modified. Thanks for all the help so far, I'm sure I'm going to have more questions and it's great to feel like I've got a source for some answers.
 
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